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Cam in Elite Company

Cam's killin' 'em  

11 members have voted

  1. 1. Will Cam Newton become an elite QB?

    • YES
      6
    • NO
      5


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So far, there are a total of six QBs that are averaging over 300 yards per games. The first five names I'm going to give you are regulars atop the leaderboard in said category: Tom Brady (360.5), Drew Brees (358.6), Aaron Rodgers (338.5), Tony Romo (318), and Philip Rivers (307.2).

 

Enter Cam Newton (307.8), who is fifth in passing yards per game this season. Add to that his 6 rushing TDs which is good for second place among all players in the NFL and his 7 passing TDs, and that gives him 13 total TDs already this year. That ties him with Drew Brees for 4th in the league in total TDs.

 

Put all of those factors together, and we're looking at one of the most productive QBs in the NFL in this young 2011 season. Who would have thought that he'd be so good so fast?

 

I know it's too early to call Cam an "elite" QB, but it's not too early to start speculating as to just how good this kid is going to be. This is a QB that many people were calling out as a sure-fire bust. He's proving to be anything but.

 

So let me know what you think. I, for one, am impressed with this young man's performance thus far. It looks to me like we're seeing the next big thing take shape before our very eyes.

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I don't even think he should get ORotY right now, due to the turnovers. Andy Dalton is playing better than Cam Newton is. Less turnovers, almost always over 200 passing yards and at least 1 TD, more wins.

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I think he's moving in the right direction. He'll only get better and create more chemistry with his offense as the season progresses. As long as he keeps making smart decisions and can continue to make extra plays with his feet he'll be golden.

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Guest Phailadelphia

That's like saying Trent Dilfer should win MVP over Tom Brady. Dalton isn't asked to throw the ball but a few times per game so of course he isn't going to turn it over as often.

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Eh, I'm not sold on Newton yet, he still hasn't done enough to get his team wins, and like it or not, that's the measure of an elite QB, the stats are just there to supplement the fact. Curtis Painter has some nice stats right now, but the Colts have still lost every game that he started. It would probably not be the same thing if Peyton Manning was healthy enough to play.

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Guest Phailadelphia

I disagree. I think wins are the worst way to judge a QB. There are 52 other players on the roster just as responsible for winning a game.

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I disagree. I think wins are the worst way to judge a QB. There are 52 other players on the roster just as responsible for winning a game.

 

Dalton throws more than a few times per game, man. Look at his stats. He's playing better than Newton. The 52 players around Newton aren't half bad, either.

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He's definitely better than I thought. I never imagines he'd be this productive in his rookie year. He finds ways to make plays for his team and seems very poised. You wouldn't think he's a rookie based on the way he plays most of the time. However, he still makes poor mistakes, which is expected. There is no way I'm calling him elite until his team starts to win more games. An elite QB can carry a team. GRanted, their defense has been pretty bad this season and the running game is only starting to get things going. I'm definitely not thinking the Panthers are an easy win like I did before the season started. That is a tough, dangerous team.

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I am guilty of suspecting Cam to bust... I was totally wrong and I'm happy I was wrong. Cam has been torching secondaries. He's been putting up great numbers and aside from the INTs he's been really good and plays hard. And don't judge him by W', remember that the Panthers defense is seriously crippled, if that D was healthy they could have won a couple games. If he had a healthy defense, a solid #2 WR and learned to read coverages better ego less picks then he definitely has a chance to be Elite.

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I actually agree with Bware. The Red Rifle is throwing around 35 times per game and isn't making a whole lot of mistakes. He also has a great completion percentage for a rookie. I don't think he's playing necessarily better, but he's easily doing just as well.

 

I think they'll both be in for a rude awakening in their 2nd years though. Rookies have been having success against teams more and more as the rules have become more pro-offense, but I guarantee you they'll struggle as teams get more and more film on them. It's also way too early to even suggest Cam will become an elite QB. That's a pretty special and exclusive class. Him getting a bunch of yards off Steve Smith being wide open isn't proof of much. You have to at least wait until the 4th season for most QB's to get a good representation as to how a QB's career will go.

 

Plus, if he doesn't stop running so much (He's on pace for over 100 attempts) he's not only going to drastically increase his chance for injury, but he's going to start racking up the fumbles.

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I wasn't a Cam hater, but I didn't expect him to perform like he has been. He's been torching defenses with a recieving crew that has no elite players. If the defense would play better and the RB's would play up to their talent, the Panthers could be at .500 right now. I am interested to see what defenses do once there's a season of film on Newton. I think his sophmore slump next year will be a BIG one. :yep:

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I disagree. I think wins are the worst way to judge a QB. There are 52 other players on the roster just as responsible for winning a game.

No single player on a team is more responsible for winning than your QB. QB's touch the football more than any player on any team.

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Dalton throws more than a few times per game, man. Look at his stats. He's playing better than Newton. The 52 players around Newton aren't half bad, either.

They're not half good. They only won 2 games all of last season, and they probably shouldn't have won those. The biggest difference this year is the QB. They weren't even close to competitive last year, and now they're in almost every game right up until the end.

 

I agree that Dalton is playing very well under the radar, but he does have a lot more weapons than Cam does—Gresham, Shipley, A.J. Green, Benson. All of his targets are young with great hands.

 

I'm not saying that the Bengals are a GREAT team, but they are a much better team than the Panthers. Bengals are cats with stripes. Panthers are just cats right now.

 

*MEEOOOOOOWWWWWW*

 

P.S. Thanks for the +1. That was stand-up.

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No single player on a team is more responsible for winning than your QB. QB's touch the football more than any player on any team.

 

 

I hear this a lot but no one on any team touches a ball more than the Center. Also the argument that "No single player on a team is more responsible for winning than your QB" is extremely stupid considering it's a team game. A QB can't win anything without a WR or a RB or missing any of their linemen or the people on defense working to get the ball back to the offense. In fact, if you replaced a guy like Calvin Johnson for a lesser WR the Lions would probably be .500 or have a losing record. Are you still going to tell me Stafford is more important than he is?

 

There's probably 3 teams out of 32 in this league with a QB that can still win enough to make the playoffs with less-skilled offensive players.

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Guest Phailadelphia

No single player on a team is more responsible for winning than your QB. QB's touch the football more than any player on any team.

 

That doesn't mean it's right (or fair) to judge a QB by win total.

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I hear this a lot but no one on any team touches a ball more than the Center. Also the argument that "No single player on a team is more responsible for winning than your QB" is extremely stupid considering it's a team game. A QB can't win anything without a WR or a RB or missing any of their linemen or the people on defense working to get the ball back to the offense. In fact, if you replaced a guy like Calvin Johnson for a lesser WR the Lions would probably be .500 or have a losing record. Are you still going to tell me Stafford is more important than he is?

 

 

In terms of skill players, which I think is what seanbrock meant, the QB touches the ball the most. And in many ways, they are more responsible for the outcome of a game than the other members of his team. Think of all the ways a bad QB can hurt a team: taking big sacks for losses, fumbling from a bad hand-off or a sack, throwing a pick 6 or just an INT in general. Even something as simple as not being able to complete passes regularly can be enough to drown a team.

 

Look at Peyton Manning, and what his absence has done to the Colts. It's pretty clear to most people now just how much that receiving corps needs him more than he needs them. His ability to take a group with basically no true deep threat and win regularly with them is a prime example of why a QB is very integral in the outcome of a team's season.

 

The problem with looking at one guy like CJ and saying he has more of an impact than their QB is that he isn't the only guy Stafford has to be able to throw to, and someone had to be able to get those TD passes to him. We haven't had to see him adjust to an offense without Johnson, but it isn't necessarily conclusive that he wouldn't be able to adapt and spread the ball around. Time will probably tell if he can, though. Newton depends heavily on Smith for yardage, when looking at just how big the gap is between the leading receiver on the team and the second place guy (their TE). He's also tied with Brady for most passing plays greater than 20 yards so far. The real question is, how would Newton do with a group of receivers like Indy's? With no true deep threat, he would have to rely much more on his passing IQ than his arm strength. Not saying he couldn't. I'm just trying to put it into perspective a little.

 

That doesn't mean it's right (or fair) to judge a QB by win total.

 

Not exclusively, but it certainly has it's place when determining just how good a QB is. If Newton never has a winning season, it probably won't matter what he does in his career, barring him shattering every major passing record (which is hard to do without winning quite a bit along the way).

 

 

 

 

All in all, it's simply way too early to even consider elite discussion. It would be like coming up with a scientific conclusion after only one experiment. He needs multiple seasons, so that his good and bad trends can be assessed better. Any kind of opinion right now is pure speculation. All we know is that he is having a pretty impressive rookie year.

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Now I get why everyone is up in arms about Cam Newton. The guy is an absolute monster. He's an amazing physical specimen. The body of a tight end, the running abilities of a running back, and he can pass the ball as good as any pocket quarterback we've seen out of college in the past couple of years. But why is everyone mentioning Newton being amazing, and not a guy named Andy Dalton? He's got BETTER stats than Newton.

 

 

Cam Newton

134/229 | 58.5 CMP% | 1,847 Yards | 7 TD, 9 INT | 1 Fumble | 78.3 QBR

 

Andy Dalton

118/189 | 62.4 CMP% | 1,311 Yards | 7 TD, 5 int | 1 Fumble | 84.3 QBR

 

Pretty close, Newton obviously has a huge leap on yardage but you have to take into account that a vast majority of Newtons yardage has come from Steve Smith making plays after catching the football this year. A lot of YAC, which to me makes Newtons yardage a little less impressive and actually evens out with Dalton in my eyes. Dalton has been a lot better in the passing game and it has shown but no one has talked about him.

 

So with this my question to everyone now becomes, is it really the fact that he is doing great in the passing game that everyone is talking about Newton? Or is it his rushing stats as a quarterback?

 

46 Attempts | 210 Yards | 6 TD | 1 Fumble

 

I'm a firm believer that Newton probably isn't the best rookie quarterback so far this season.

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No single player on a team is more responsible for winning than your QB. QB's touch the football more than any player on any team.

 

Actually, that would be the center. Edit: Shotgun beat me to it.

 

As far as the Steve Smith responsible for a lot of Newton's YAC- A.J. Green is doing a lot of that for Dalton.

 

The Bengals have had a far easier road than Newton and the Panthers. Were I give ORotY *right now* it would go to Dalton. Let's see what the Red Rifle does against Pittsburgh, Houston, and the Ravens.

 

As well- and this may be true for some of Dalton's picks, I haven't watched but one Bengals game- at least 4 of Cam's picks were just bad luck or tremendous plays by a defensive player.

 

He's really only had the one "bad" game, against Green Bay, as far as INTs go. The Atlanta game, arguably none of them were really on him.

 

Everything we can really look at to determine how good a QB will eventually be suggests Cam will be elite. However, a lot of times, things just don't pan out that way.

 

 

Pretty close, Newton obviously has a huge leap on yardage but you have to take into account that a vast majority of Newtons yardage has come from Steve Smith making plays after catching the football this year.

 

Vast majority? Try about 1/3. About the same percentage Green has for Dalton, oddly enough.

Edited by Thanatos19
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I didn't realize how close that actually was too, I suppose I was wrong on that one. Good catch. The Panthers receivers account for 697 YAC, and the Bengals 468 YAC.

Edited by Chris D

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You'd have to be pretty unreasonable to say that Dalton is more deserving of winning OROTY then Newton.

 

Dalton has it a ton easier then Newton and far less has been asked of Dalton then Newton.

 

Dalton's completion percentage is better, but Newton has thrown the ball more and averages more yards per throws (not accounting yac) and it's not even close. And since Dalton averages only 4% more accuracy then Newton, what does that tell you about how well Newton has been playing?

 

Matter of fact Newton is amongst the top in the league (3rd) in yards per throw if you don't account for they yac.

 

And as far as the "Andy Dalton has more wins" B.S... Comparing w/L record isn't always the best way to go about arguing which QB is better.

 

Andy Dalton has played opponents with a Combine record of 12-23, he is 1-1 Against opponents with winning records and 3-1 Against against opponents with losing records. He also has, the #2 defense in the league, the #3 pass defense and the #6 run defense. Ask any Bengals fan and they'll tell you that despite the fact that Dalton has played well against a lot of the teams they have beaten, the defense is the biggest reason for there success.

 

Cam Newton on the other hand's opponents have a combined Record of 18-18. He is 0-4 against winning opponents and he is 1-1 Against losing opponents. And the Panthers are #16 in total total defense, #11 in pass defense and #31 run defense... The Panther's defense have gone into to the 4th quarter with a lead (or have gained the lead in the 4th) in 3 games so far only to have it slip away in the closing minutes by the defense's ineffectiveness in the clutch including recently against the Saints.

 

1 of Newton's INTs have been on a HAIL MARY. And let's not forget the 5 rushing TDs... Dalton has accounted for 8tds to Newton's 13tds.

 

The ROPOTY is easily Newton's to lose. He's been the better of the two QBs, and while he is nowhere near elite yet, he's shown a lot more then Dalton has.

Edited by DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F

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That was one heck of a performance on Sunday. I don't know if anyone else got to watch the whole thing, but Newton was simply ridiculous.

 

This run still has me shaking my head: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d82361156/Newton-25-yard-run

 

His stats were also exactly what I've been waiting to see, nearly 80% in accuracy, (and if you take away dropped passes and intentional incompletions, I believe he would be 20/21), no picks, great plays with his feet, and some absolutely incredible throws- which lead to him having the rather ridiculous stat of 11 yards per attempt.

 

Take a look at this one: http://www.nfl.com/videos/carolina-panthers/09000d5d8236898f/QB-Newton-to-WR-Smith-36-yd-pass

 

He keeps this up, Carolina is going to be one dangerous team down the stretch, even if we've already dug ourselves too deep of a hole to climb out of, which I think is probably the case.

Edited by Thanatos19

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Yeah man. Newton is a beast. He's a whole lot better than I thought he'd be. I'll be the first to eat crow on this one. I thought he'd be a bust, but he may instead become a mainstay as one of the best QBs in the league before it's all said and done.

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