The QB Slide

[oochymp 2,393]

QBs are overprotected, I think we can all agree to that statement to some extent, but I'm hoping to focus this on one aspect of QB protection: the QB Slide. It's a well accepted fact that when a QB runs from the backfield he can go into a feet-first slide and the defense can't hit him, but at what point in the slide does he gain that protection? How much does a defender need to do to avoid a collision? If you're wondering why this is coming up, I'm guessing you didn't watch the Patriots/Redskins game this weekend, because it came up there, and in a big surprise it was on a hit on Tom Brady. Here's a blog from Yahoo with some discussion as well as video of the play in question: http://sports.yahoo....urn=nfl-wp13628

 

For a basic synopsis of the play, the play broke down and Brady started running, he had almost gotten to the first down marker, but London Fletcher was about a yard and a half from him and about to lay a big hit on him, so Brady went into his slide. Fletcher was already driving toward Brady when Brady started going down, and FTR Brady later in the game made a linebacker miss in a similar situation (I can't find video of it, but IIRC the guy got Brady's feet as he sidestepped) Fletcher hit Brady right after he started into his slide, but before he had hit the ground. Also, for full disclosure the Redskins held the Patriots to a field goal on the drive and they were already well within field goal range before the penalty, so it didn't have a true impact on the game.

 

The QB Slide has become an art form with QBs getting as many protected yards as possible, and Peyton Manning has probably been the worst offender, I couldn't find many good videos, but here are two examples and I'm sure most of you know what I'm talking about anyway:

 

Skip to about :34 Manning starts his slide at the 6, spotted at the 4, gaining two yards while he couldn't get hit

 

Manning starts his slide around the 44, looks like he's down around the 41 (can't tell for sure where he went down, but again it looks like his slide got him 2 yards)

 

Now, I wouldn't argue that the slide should be done away with and QBs should get no safe harbor once they leave the pocket, but something needs to change. The only real solution I can come up with would be to have refs spot the ball where the QB starts his slide rather than where he hits the ground, making that a point of emphasis in officiating, thus removing the extra yards a QB can gain with a good slide, but that encourages QBs to wait until the last second to start their slide and that's what caused this collision. Any other ideas I've come up with would just be too contrived and tough to enforce (Limit the slide to only usable when not in dangerous proximity to a defender, but then when can you use it? Explicitly allow defenders to hit QBs who have started falling as long as they have not hit the ground, but how many borderline calls would that prodcue?) I'm curious what y'all think of this, is there an easier solution I haven't thought of? Is this play an exception and this is really not a problem at all? Anybody think the NFL should just do away with the QB Slide?

[Thanatos 2,847]

I think the rule is supposed to be that they get the ball where they start the slide.

 

It's very easy, it really is- allow a penalty that is given on a hit like this to be challenged. It's obvious to everyone watching that if the refs could have reviewed the hit Fletcher gave Brady, they would have made it a no-call, since their reasoning was forearm to the head, and the forearm hits Brady in the gut.

 

While we're on the subject, the way challenges should be done is one of two ways: Either A) coaches can challenge as long as they have a timeout to lose should the challenge fail, or B) Coaches have two misses. What I mean by this is that a coach can challenge as many times as he wants, (as long he has a timeout to lose if the challenge fails), until he has missed two challenges, in which case, he no longer can challenge. I like option B the best. It simply doesn't make sense that a guy can successfully challenge 3 times, and then if the refs screw up again, he can't do anything about it.

Edited December 12, 2011 by Thanatos19

[oochymp 2,393]

I think the rule is supposed to be that they get the ball where they start the slide.

 

It's very easy, it really is- allow a penalty that is given on a hit like this to be challenged. It's obvious to everyone watching that if the refs could have reviewed the hit Fletcher gave Brady, they would have made it a no-call, since their reasoning was forearm to the head, and the forearm hits Brady in the gut.

to your first point, I looked it up on NFL.com and the official rule is as follows: "An official shall declare the ball dead ... when a runner declares himself down by sliding feet first on the ground. The ball is dead the instant the runner touches the ground with anything other than his hands or his feet" (NFL rulebook: Link pertinent page: Link) so in other words, a sliding QB isn't down until he hits the ground, which is where the art form I described above comes in.

 

 

to your second point, making penalties challengable could very easily get out of hand, it's a judgement call and the league doesn't want to subject that to review

 

[Thanatos 2,847]

to your first point, I looked it up on NFL.com and the official rule is as follows: "An official shall declare the ball dead ... when a runner declares himself down by sliding feet first on the ground. The ball is dead the instant the runner touches the ground with anything other than his hands or his feet" (NFL rulebook: Link pertinent page: Link) so in other words, a sliding QB isn't down until he hits the ground, which is where the art form I described above comes in.

 

 

to your second point, making penalties challengable could very easily get out of hand, it's a judgement call and the league doesn't want to subject that to review

 

Not all penalties, just two types: personal fouls, and pass interference. Why? Because they are such huge calls in the game. PFs are 15 yarders, and PI is spot of the foul.

 

I have heard multiple times that a QB is supposed to be dead as soon as he starts his slide, I wonder where that came from.

[oochymp 2,393]

Not all penalties, just two types: personal fouls, and pass interference. Why? Because they are such huge calls in the game. PFs are 15 yarders, and PI is spot of the foul.

both are entirely judgement calls and the NFL doesn't want anyone second guessing officials judgement on the field

 

 

I have heard multiple times that a QB is supposed to be dead as soon as he starts his slide, I wonder where that came from.

probably commentators speaking off their ass, they do that a lot

 

[Thanatos 2,847]

both are entirely judgement calls and the NFL doesn't want anyone second guessing officials judgement on the field

 

Too late, lol. They get second-guessed all the time.

 

Besides, this would be the refs themselves looking at it. If they're trying to avoid us getting mad at calls, not being able to challenge is having the opposite effect. I mean, this wasn't a judgment call. Neither is something like head-to-head. If they call head-to-head, or forearm-to-head, and they're clearly wrong, and a replay shows it, how is that a judgment call?

 

A review would have reversed that personal foul, no question.

Edited December 12, 2011 by Thanatos19