[Thanatos19]

oochymp, on 03 June 2012 - 11:02 PM, said:

not really, if you would be willing to get the game through legitimate means but it just isn't available that's a different situation from the game being available at any store and you're just not willing to pay the $60 to get it

No no, that's the exact same thing, oochymp. There's no difference at all. [/sarcasm]

Favre4Ever, on 03 June 2012 - 11:11 PM, said:

You are a thief just as much as the guys pirating... Call it whatever you want. You created a thread to tear yourself down... lol

Nope. Way to consistently ignore the point.

.AirMcNair., on 03 June 2012 - 11:30 PM, said:

He's also apparently a judge, being able to determine what "really is stealing" and what isn't.

We just aren't as wise as him and don't have the ability to change the law to our likings.

As I've said multiple times, yet you consistently ignore it- I'm not asking what is legally okay. I'm asking what is morally okay.

Way to jump to the personal insults, though. We needed those to truly have a discussion on the subject.

I find it rather funny that we are capable of having a civil discussion about gay marriage and abortion, but not about pirating games.

I was simply wanting to have a discussion on this, but some people apparently decided to take it personally. If anyone wants to give an actual argument, instead of an ad hominem, I'd be happy to discuss this further. Otherwise, I'm done.

This post has been edited by Thanatos19: 03 June 2012 - 11:48 PM

[.AirMcNair.]

Thanatos19, on 03 June 2012 - 11:46 PM, said:

No no, that's the exact same thing, oochymp. There's no difference at all. [/sarcasm]



Nope. Way to consistently ignore the point.



As I've said multiple times, yet you consistently ignore it- I'm not asking what is legally okay. I'm asking what is morally okay.

Way to jump to the personal insults, though. We needed those to truly have a discussion on the subject.

I find it rather funny that we are capable of having a civil discussion about gay marriage and abortion, but not about pirating games.

I was simply wanting to have a discussion on this, but some people apparently decided to take it personally. If anyone wants to give an actual argument, instead of an ad hominem, I'd be happy to discuss this further. Otherwise, I'm done.

I was perfectly fine with discussing it civilly. Then you contradict yourself, try and cover up for yourself, and of all things try and lie and say you've never watched/never will watch(however you worded it) porn.

Then I stopped taking this seriously whatsoever and resorted to making fun of people.

[Favre4Ever]

Games that are SO INCREDIBLY rare that you can't find ANYWHERE at ANY PRICE are games that you don't collect to play. You get them for the cartridge, jewel case, disc, box, manual, ETC ETC ETC.

Just because something is rare, doesn't mean you can just help yourself to it.

[Thanatos19]

.AirMcNair., on 03 June 2012 - 11:53 PM, said:

I was perfectly fine with discussing it civilly. Then you contradict yourself, try and cover up for yourself, and of all things try and lie and say you've never watched/never will watch(however you worded it) porn.

Then I stopped taking this seriously whatsoever and resorted to making fun of people.

I didn't contradict myself, and I don't even know what you're talking about with trying to cover up for myself?

I said I don't watch porn, not that I've never watched porn.

I no longer do so because I believe it's wrong for me to do so. That is a personal belief that I have come to, and I am not judging anyone on it. You decided that I must be lying, because in your world everyone must watch porn, and took it as a personal attack, and have done nothing but resort to insults since.

[.AirMcNair.]

Thanatos19, on 03 June 2012 - 11:58 PM, said:

I didn't contradict myself, and I don't even know what you're talking about with trying to cover up for myself?

I said I don't watch porn, not that I've never watched porn.

I no longer do so because I believe it's wrong for me to do so. That is a personal belief that I have come to, and I am not judging anyone on it. You decided that I must be lying, because in your world everyone must watch porn, and took it as a personal attack, and have done nothing but resort to insults since.

Your complete point in the beginning was that pirating games was wrong because it was illegal and because it was stealing. Then you switched to saying it's morally wrong, not that you're mad because it's stealing/wrong, after you revealed you downloaded some $5 game.

The point with the porn was, like I said, you in the beginning kept stating pirating was wrong because it was stealing, and I stated if you've ever streamed tv/movies or watched porn you'd normally have to pay for, you were stealing. You told us that you never watched a porno you'd have to pay for otherwise...which I can only take as meaning you never watched porn, and you went on to tell us you view it as morally wrong. You kept defending yourself for never having watched porn. Now you're saying you did, but now you view it as wrong or whatever.

Just about everyone who uses the internet watches porn. Whether they're married, have a boyfriend/girlfriend or single(unless they're like 70 or something, I guess, but even then I'm sure there are cases). There's a reason every single one of us were thinking you were lying about never having watched it, because we all know that pretty much everyone does.

[Thanatos19]

.AirMcNair., on 04 June 2012 - 12:04 AM, said:

Your complete point in the beginning was that pirating games was wrong because it was illegal and because it was stealing. Then you switched to saying it's morally wrong, not that you're mad because it's stealing/wrong, after you revealed you downloaded some $5 game.

The point with the porn was, like I said, you in the beginning kept stating pirating was wrong because it was stealing, and I stated if you've ever streamed tv/movies or watched porn you'd normally have to pay for, you were stealing. You told us that you never watched a porno you'd have to pay for otherwise...which I can only take as meaning you never watched porn, and you went on to tell us you view it as morally wrong. You kept defending yourself for never having watched porn. Now you're saying you did, but now you view it as wrong or whatever.

Just about everyone who uses the internet watches porn. Whether they're married, have a boyfriend/girlfriend or single(unless they're like 70 or something, I guess, but even then I'm sure there are cases). There's a reason every single one of us were thinking you were lying about never having watched it, because we all know that pretty much everyone does.

I'd point out that I did, in fact, pay for the game. Twice. If all that pirates ever did was try out games for an hour or so and then buy them if they liked them, and delete the game if they didn't, I'd have a lot less of a problem with them. Again- still stealing, technically.

I didn't say I never had watched porn, I said I don't watch it. And I don't. You can believe me or not, I can't control that, nor do I really care. It's completely irrelevant whether or not you believe me, and quite frankly, completely irrelevant to the topic, (barring what I say in my second paragraph). At that point, however, you immediately called me a liar. Which yes, made me rather ticked that that was your instant reaction.

Sure, I will grant you your overall point. Streaming movies/tv-shows/porn, that you don't own is also stealing. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Pirating games is wrong because it is stealing, IMO. Technically, so is pirating an older game. So yes, technically, pirating an older game is also wrong, just to make that crystal clear so my words can't be twisted again. I agree with you. I simply see a huge difference in doing it once in a blue moon because you can't find it, but would be willing to pay for it if you did, and just pirating $60 games as a matter of course.

I also agree with Favre. Knowing what I know now, I would be willing to lay money I could find any game. Knowing what I knew then, however, I couldn't find it.

I never said pirating games is wrong "because its illegal." If I did, I misspoke, because I don't believe that anything is wrong "because its illegal." Just because something is against the law doesn't mean anything as to whether or not it is *morally* wrong.

I'm not judging anyone in this thread. We were just having a discussion. I may not be able to see your point of view here, but all I wanted to do was have a discussion on the issue. There was no need for the personal attacks and insults.

This post has been edited by Thanatos19: 04 June 2012 - 12:25 AM

[Favre4Ever]

Next time you can't find a game that is so awesome, that you have to play it.. Let me know. I can probably find it for you, at a price.... No need to steal it.

Oh, you can't afford it? Get a better job.

[Thanatos19]

Favre4Ever, on 04 June 2012 - 12:25 AM, said:

Next time you can't find a game that is so awesome, that you have to play it.. Let me know. I can probably find it for you, at a price.... No need to steal it.

Oh, you can't afford it? Get a better job.

I doubt it will ever happen again, seeing as I'm quite a bit better at finding stuff on the 'net than I was six years ago.

Glad to see you're continuing to ignore the overall point, though. You are seriously going on and on about one game, one time, that I've agreed with you is technically wrong.

You honestly think that is the same thing as constantly pirating new games?

This post has been edited by Thanatos19: 04 June 2012 - 12:27 AM

[Favre4Ever]

Your point in this whole thread has been what is morally right.

In that case, no... There is no difference. Theft is Theft. Both are morally wrong.

[Thanatos19]

Favre4Ever, on 04 June 2012 - 12:40 AM, said:

Your point in this whole thread has been what is morally right.

In that case, no... There is no difference. Theft is Theft. Both are morally wrong.

Is everything that is morally wrong all morally wrong in the same degree?

A man walks into a store and takes a soda without paying for it. Later, he comes back and pays for it. He's never done so again.

Another man is lifting $50 worth of goods from his local store every two weeks. They're both equally morally wrong?

This post has been edited by Thanatos19: 04 June 2012 - 12:45 AM

[Favre4Ever]

At the very foundation of the act. Absolutely.

Theft is wrong. Period.

[BwareDWare94]

Thanatos19, on 03 June 2012 - 11:58 PM, said:

I didn't contradict myself, and I don't even know what you're talking about with trying to cover up for myself?

I said I don't watch porn, not that I've never watched porn.

I no longer do so because I believe it's wrong for me to do so. That is a personal belief that I have come to, and I am not judging anyone on it. You decided that I must be lying, because in your world everyone must watch porn, and took it as a personal attack, and have done nothing but resort to insults since.

You aren't alone there, man. I don't watch porn, either. It's absolutely one of the sickest inventions in the history of our world.

[Thanatos19]

Alright, guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

On topic, though, you do think pirating games is wrong, you just think its wrong regardless of whether or not you can find them?

[funnygunny]

On a related topic, my friend went down to a Footlocker and asked to try on Nike Air Forces. After he put them on he just ran out of the store.

K not related but pretty hilarious.

[BwareDWare94]

The answer is absolutely and unequivocally no.

I don't pirate anything at all. It's not because I don't love music and movies and other forms of media, it's because I don't have the time necessary to get something out of the mass amount of music and movies and books I already have. There's no need to steal more.

On the other hand, games like Madden and certain other sports games don't make improvements that justify the $60 price tag every year. When I used to game a little bit, I found myself buying the same game every year (Madden) just so I could have updated rosters. Things are different by the year, yes, but calling these differences "improvements" was a stretch.

If you want to maintain the price, make improvements. It's as simple as that. I'm not sure how many games on the market are truly worth $60, but that doesn't mean you get to steal them.

This post has been edited by BwareDWare94: 04 June 2012 - 12:51 AM

[Favre4Ever]

You can find pretty much any game in existence. Yes, of course you get the uber rare european release only.. or the NWC Gold or something insane like that, but let's be honest. That game sucks and probably isn't worth the DL time.

I remember buying a copy of Poy Poy (PS1) a couple years ago for $75. Insanity.

[Thanatos19]

Favre4Ever, on 04 June 2012 - 12:51 AM, said:

You can find pretty much any game in existence. Yes, of course you get the uber rare european release only.. or the NWC Gold or something insane like that, but let's be honest. That game sucks and probably isn't worth the DL time.

I remember buying a copy of Poy Poy (PS1) a couple years ago for $75. Insanity.

I agree, you probably can.

There might be a few Japanese releases that may be hard to get in North America.

I have an Aussie friend that constantly has to pay $90-$100 for games because of some sort of ridiculous system I honestly do not understand in the slightest.

[RazorStar]

When the game is old enough, you are no longer stealing from the company. Because they wouldn't profit if you obtained the game elsewhere, because they aren't the previous owners of it anymore.

[Duck Fallas]

Vin, on 03 June 2012 - 08:42 PM, said:

No. But this is also coming from someone who legally buys all of his music, so my opinion is probably immediately invalid.

Same here.

Stealing is stealing, not matter how you twist it in your mind.I have never pirated a game, nor have I illegally downloaded music or movies.