[Plax 4 Prez]

Zack_of_Steel, on 07 June 2012 - 06:17 PM, said:

I have had no issues with you. I neg your retarded posts the same way I do everyone else's. You are the only one throwing out insults and personal attacks over a few negs, lmao.

You spam, double post, vomit homerism, and then proceed to attack me for disliking (negging) your posts. lol. Keep crying, I'm finished responding to you.



Rivers > Eli [/thread]

That is your opinion, and I'm entitled to my opinion whether you like it or not is completely a non-issue. All I know is that you negg all my comments, which I can careless about but it leaves me to believe you have some personal vendetta with me. Lol, I just think it's funny that I went from +4 rep to -14 all from you. I've never had an issue with you until you started blasting me on your status updates. If you don't like my posts, that's one thing, but then you start bashing me of course I'm going to defend myself, I'm no pussy, bruah, nor do I sit thee with my tail between my legs, so if you want to squash the beef I'm down, but if you want to continue the both of us acting like high schoolers then so be it

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F]

Plax 4 Prez, on 07 June 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

That is your opinion, and I'm entitled to my opinion whether you like it or not is completely a non-issue. All I know is that you negg all my comments, which I can careless about but it leaves me to believe you have some personal vendetta with me. Lol, I just think it's funny that I went from +4 rep to -14 all from you. I've never had an issue with you until you started blasting me on your status updates. If you don't like my posts, that's one thing, but then you start bashing me of course I'm going to defend myself, I'm no pussy, bruah, nor do I sit thee with my tail between my legs, so if you want to squash the beef I'm down, but if you want to continue the both of us acting like high schoolers then so be it

here's an idea...

Since it is a football forum and all, maybe you should try arguing why your opinion is what it is.

Maybe if you argue your position- and make sense... Your rep wouldn't be dippin...

[Plax 4 Prez]

DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F, on 07 June 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

here's an idea...

Since it is a football forum and all, maybe you should try arguing why your opinion is what it is.

Maybe if you argue your position- and make sense... Your rep wouldn't be dippin...

Lmao, I've already made my point, and the reason I posted what I just did is cause when you get all that neg from one person, after making pretty solid statements about why I feel Eli is better, and it's not b/c I'm a G-Man fan, but b/c of the results that he's shown me. Before 2007 I honestly thought the Giants made a horrible decision giving up what they did for Eli, but after 2 SB's, and 2 SB MVP's, 2 pro-bowls, and argubally his best season yet, I have reasons for my optimism

[G-Men]

Not here to jump into the argument. Just want to give my point of view. Don't want to see like a homer or anything but i think those still not sold on Eli are undervaluing exactly what he did in getting those 2 rings. I think the arguments that Romo or Rivers could have won if they've had Eli's teams is just insane. The 2 teams Eli won the Superbowl with had reg season records of 10-6 in 2007 and 9-7 last season. Not exactly juggernauts. Rivers and Romo both have had outstanding teams in the past very capable of winning a championship. Heck in 2007 the Cowboys were a very formidable 13-3, but it was Romo who threw an int on the last play of the game with the chance to win while Eli made those big plays to win big games.

Rivers is also good but i personally like him more than Romo. He doesn't really step his game up to another level come playoff time but he does have grit and guts (played in a playoff game with like a torn acl or something one time i believe). Yes those guys have been more consistent overall in their careers and that has been the knock on Eli that he doesn't show up all the time but no one could ever discount him because he ALWAYS showed up when it mattered and THAT is the main trait that allowed him to lead his team to two Super Bowl victories. NFL record 15 4th quarter TD passes last season and thats not because he was throwing so many TDs like so many of the other QBs who piled theirs up while frontrunning. Had like 6 or 7 4th quarter comeback wins which was also near the top of the league. He only threw 29 TDs total on the season so more than half of his TDs came in the 4th quarter when the team needed them the most. All in all that is why i'd personally take Eli over Rivers. 07 was an all-time great playoff run and i can't really see that being duplicated. Even if you wanted to say we got lucky. You know how the saying goes, "Once is an aberration, two is a trend." Eli did it twice just to silence the doubters.

[seanbrock]

BwareDWare94, on 07 June 2012 - 04:43 PM, said:

Not even Eli could win with the defenses on the other side of the ball for Romo.

The Giants had the 27th ranked defense last year. Romo had a top 15 defense. The Giants gave up 25 ppg compared to Dallas' 21 ppg. I don't even have to mention all the injuries to his WR's and RB's and the shitty o line play. Eli is EASILY better than Romo.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F]

G-Men, on 08 June 2012 - 12:25 AM, said:

Not here to jump into the argument. Just want to give my point of view. Don't want to see like a homer or anything but i think those still not sold on Eli are undervaluing exactly what he did in getting those 2 rings. I think the arguments that Romo or Rivers could have won if they've had Eli's teams is just insane. The 2 teams Eli won the Superbowl with had reg season records of 10-6 in 2007 and 9-7 last season. Not exactly juggernauts. Rivers and Romo both have had outstanding teams in the past very capable of winning a championship. Heck in 2007 the Cowboys were a very formidable 13-3, but it was Romo who threw an int on the last play of the game with the chance to win while Eli made those big plays to win big games.

Every single QB in the NFL -including Eli- has made costly mistakes that have cost their teams wins. You can single Romo out if you want, but the fact is, that if you take away this Eli's post season numbers this past season, which just happened to be his best season yet. His numbers in the post season become unimpressive, and pretty bad.

Quote

Rivers is also good but i personally like him more than Romo. He doesn't really step his game up to another level come playoff time but he does have grit and guts (played in a playoff game with like a torn acl or something one time i believe). Yes those guys have been more consistent overall in their careers and that has been the knock on Eli that he doesn't show up all the time but no one could ever discount him because he ALWAYS showed up when it mattered and THAT is the main trait that allowed him to lead his team to two Super Bowl victories. NFL record 15 4th quarter TD passes last season and thats not because he was throwing so many TDs like so many of the other QBs who piled theirs up while frontrunning. Had like 6 or 7 4th quarter comeback wins which was also near the top of the league. He only threw 29 TDs total on the season so more than half of his TDs came in the 4th quarter when the team needed them the most. All in all that is why i'd personally take Eli over Rivers. 07 was an all-time great playoff run and i can't really see that being duplicated. Even if you wanted to say we got lucky. You know how the saying goes, "Once is an aberration, two is a trend." Eli did it twice just to silence the doubters.

And this is where all this talk about Eli being clutch this season is kinda getting out of hand. Nobody is denying the fact that Eli Manning stepped up his game in the 4th Qr, which probably led to wins.

But he finished the season with 29 Tds, which was a very good 6th in the league, tied with Ryan.

But every single QB ahead of him, outside of Romo, won more games then him. It's cool if your QB is able to perform when the pressure is at it's highest, (the clutch), but how often do you, or would you end up being put in a clutch situation if your QB played more consistently through the entire game? Yea I know defenses occasionally ply a role because they can't hold leads. But regardless, You should take the time to compare Eli Manning first 3 Qtrs to some of the other "elite" QBs this past season, and won more games then Eli.

And lastly, this idea that Eli Manning is at his best in the playoffs compared to some of these other QBs would be a different tune if he hadn't played against so many bad defenses on his way to winning the Super Bowl. His numbers in the playoffs weren't very impressive either in compassion to Rivers before this past postseason.

This is the FIRST season that Eli Manning has ever outplayed Rivers, not accounting the years Rivers was on the bench. I get it, he played well this year, but some of you guys are really being caught up in the moment...

[B-isforBowe]

DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F, on 06 June 2012 - 03:01 PM, said:

Eli is great based on what? The fact that he's won 2 SBs, 2 SBs MVPs, and has a lot of comebacks? Or his career stats?

I certainly hope it's not for the latter.

And as it relates to Rivers duping the ball off 3-7 yards... He's averaging 8.0 yards per attempt for his career, that puts him in a pretty elite group of QBs.

I don't base everything on solely on stats. I've watched a lot of both of these QBs, and when things get tough, there is only one of these guys I trust to keep composure, hang tough, and answer back when everything is on him. That's Eli.

As for Rivers' YPA, that's a great stat for him, but like I said earlier, every time he throws a 3-7 yard dump off and a RB or Gates takes off for 25 yards, his stats inflate. Norv gets a lot of heat for this team underachieving, and rightfully so, but Rivers deserves his one share of the blame.

[GA_Eagle]

B-isforBowe, on 09 June 2012 - 05:56 AM, said:

As for Rivers' YPA, that's a great stat for him, but like I said earlier, every time he throws a 3-7 yard dump off and a RB or Gates takes off for 25 yards, his stats inflate. Norv gets a lot of heat for this team underachieving, and rightfully so, but Rivers deserves his one share of the blame.

Thats a tough stat to inflate to that level in the manner you are implying. If they guy only threw dump offs it would be pretty damn tough to be tied for 5th ALL TIME in this stat.

[B-isforBowe]

GA_Eagle, on 09 June 2012 - 09:10 AM, said:

Thats a tough stat to inflate to that level in the manner you are implying. If they guy only threw dump offs it would be pretty damn tough to be tied for 5th ALL TIME in this stat.

I'm not saying that he ONLY throws dump offs, but it is what he does the most of. His passing offense spreads the field in a manner that with good protection, it's easy for a back/TE to squirt out on a short route and get underneath the defense.

I'm not saying he's a bad QB or anything. I just have always thought he was a little overrated and not on the upper tier of QBs. His lack of composure and stability in intense moments. I put him in the same class as Romo and Cutler. They're physically "perfect" for the QB position: big arm, accurate, quick release, tall enough, not fast but pocket-mobile. They seem to be missing an intangible, though.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F]

Ok, I see, so because Eli has been able to 'compose' himself in moments here and their more then Rivers, the fact that one QB has the other one beat in almost every category statistically by a significant amount should just be thrown out the window.

To each their own I guess...

[funnygunny]

DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F, on 09 June 2012 - 12:16 AM, said:

And lastly, this idea that Eli Manning is at his best in the playoffs compared to some of these other QBs would be a different tune if he hadn't played against so many bad defenses on his way to winning the Super Bowl. His numbers in the playoffs weren't very impressive either in compassion to Rivers before this past postseason.

This.

DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F, on 10 June 2012 - 02:46 AM, said:

Ok, I see, so because Eli has been able to 'compose' himself in moments here and there more then Rivers, the fact that one QB has the other one beat in almost every category statistically by a significant amount should just be thrown out the window.

To each their own I guess...

And this.

"Clutch" is more overly used than Sasha Grey's arsehole. What do you even define clutch as. Is it winning games when behind in the 4th quarter? Is it winning games on the final drive of the 4th quarter? Or is it winning a Super Bowl in the last possible moment? Too many different scenarios.

Rivers literally has Manning beat in every category but isn't considered clutch, therefore Manning is the better QB. I'm guessing clutch means winning in the final minute of the Super Bowl. The only reason why Manning is in this conversation is because of two games against the Patriots that earned him 2 rings. Correct?


Lets quickly examine the two plays responsible for this.

07 Super Bowl:
- missed sack by two 300lb lineman, Manning proceeds to air it out to Burress, blown assignment by Harrison, unbelievable catch. Giants a few plays later win the game.

CLUTCH?!?!!

12 Super Bowl:
- Belichick and RIGHTFULLY SO, took a gamble with forcing Manning to go to Manningham in an attempt to shutdown Cruz and Nicks.
- Manningham to the wild disarray of NE fans actually caught the ball and a few plays later, Giants win the game

CLUTCH?!!!?

You never see defense in the discussion of "clutch" play. IMO, clutch should be applied to both offense AND defense. How well the DEFENSE produces when it counts is just as important as how well a QB would produce when it counts. I don't see those two plays as clutch on Eli Manning's part, but rather lack of composure and coordination on NE's part leading to Manning more or less lucking out.

Not trying to detract from Manning's stellar perfomance this post-season, just trying to make a point with the whole "clutch" thing.


If, however, clutch means winning in the final drive or even coming back from behind in the 4th quarter in general, then yes, I would consider Eli Manning to be clutch. The dude has like 21 comebacks in the 4th as well as 25 game winning drives. That's not bad compared to a Tom Brady who has 25 comebacks in the 4th and 35 game winning drives coming in about 3 years before Manning.

If the question was "Who is the better QB?", I would say Phillip Rivers. But as the question is "Who would YOU take?", I'd honestly take Eli Manning because he has built a reputation of producing in the 4th quarter. But it really is massively over-exaggerated when discussing his Super Bowl victories.