[Jayrus]

Quote

Scott Fujita, Anthony Hargrove, Will Smith and Jonathan Vilma were notified Tuesday that NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell has upheld the player discipline that was imposed for their roles in the New Orleans Saints' pay-for-performance "bounty" program.

Vilma has been suspended without pay for the entire 2012 season, Hargrove eight games, Smith four games and Fujita for three games.

"Throughout this entire process, including your appeals, and despite repeated invitations and encouragement to do so, none of you has offered any evidence that would warrant reconsideration of your suspensions. Instead, you elected not to participate meaningfully in the appeal process..." Goodell wrote in a letter to the players.

"Although you claimed to have been 'wrongfully accused with insufficient evidence,' your lawyers elected not to ask a single question of the principal investigators, both of whom were present at the hearing (as your lawyers had requested); you elected not to testify or to make any substantive statement, written or oral, in support of your appeal; you elected not to call a single witness to support your appeal; and you elected not to introduce a single exhibit addressing the merits of your appeal. Instead, your lawyers raised a series of jurisdictional and procedural objections that generally ignore the CBA, in particular its provisions governing 'conduct detrimental' determinations..."

"In sum, I did not make my determinations here lightly. At every stage, I took seriously my responsibilities under the Collective Bargaining Agreement. I determined the discipline for each of you

(1) only after a long, detailed and professional investigation by NFL Security's experienced investigators;

(2) only after the results of that investigation were carefully reviewed by an independent expert, former United States Attorney Mary Jo White;

(3) only after I heard the appeals of the Saints' coaches and staff regarding discipline for their roles in the program;

(4) only after representatives of NFL Security, along with Mr. Pash and Mr. Birch, spoke with Players Association attorneys at length regarding the investigation; and

(5) only after giving each of you multiple opportunities to meet with the NFL investigators and to share with them your version of the events surrounding the program. The suspensions imposed were reasonable action taken to preserve public confidence in, and the integrity of, the game of professional football."

The players and NFL Players Association had previously challenged Goodell's authority to hear the player appeals, but their arguments were rejected by two arbitrators.

"While this decision constitutes my final and binding determination under the CBA, I of course retain the inherent authority to reduce a suspension should facts be brought to my attention warranting the exercise of that discretion," Goodell wrote. "The record confirms that each of you was given multiple chances to meet with me to present your side of the story. You are each still welcome to do so."

NFL.Com

This is basically what I expected to happen for the exact reason I expected it to happen. The Saints never bothered to defend themselves. Sure, they made alot of press statements claiming innocence and attacking Goodell, but when it came to putting on a meaningful defense they never did a thing. they presented no evidence of their innocence.

Their lawyers did not ask a single question of the investigators at the hearing. the playes themselves refused to testify on their own behalf. Hell, they straight up walked out of the hearing. Not the actions of people sure they are innocent. Basically the Saints refused to put on any kind of case in their own defense. I have to agree with Goodell here. Show me any court anywhere that would rule in your favor when you refuse to even participate in the hearing. There is none.

There's no way Goodell was going to overturn the punishments or even reduce them when the Saints themselves don't care to defend themselves in any meaningful way beyond blabbing to the media how the "big bad monster" Goodell is making this whole thing up to be mean to them. By not presenting any kind of defense the Saints gave goodell no reason to reconsider their punishments. However, Goodell was good enough to say that he'll still be willing to meet with Saints personel and consider any evidence they want to bring to him. I have a feeling they won't bother though. They're too busy trying to paint Goodell as a monsterous tyrant so they can go over his head to the US courts. Kind reminds me of a child knowing they're in trouble with daddy so they're running to mommy.

I'm not saying that the evidence against the Saints is perfect and unshakable. Far form it. however, I can't see how this was going to end any other way when the Saints basically refused to have anything to do with Goodell or defend themselves to the NFL in any way beyond making pointless media statements that are basically nothing more their word against the NFL's. I have no doubt they'll continue to try and get this to court, but in order to do that they'll have to prove that Goodell violated the CBA, and seeing as how the Saints either don't seem to have any evidence to present in their defense, or don't care to present anything but empty press statements, I don't see them succeeding. whether innocnet or guilty, the Saints have lost.

[Thanatos19]

Bullshit.

I love how NFL.com keeps trying to spin this. This quote right here tells you that they are trying to spin it.

Quote

Scott Fujita, Anthony Hargrove, Will Smith and Jonathan Vilma were notified Tuesday that NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell has upheld the player discipline that was imposed for their roles in the New Orleans Saints' pay-for-performance "bounty" program.

That was NOT the issue in question. The question was whether or not they had a pay-for-injury system going on.

[BigBen07]

This shit is getting more ridiculous each day.

[Eefluxx]

Kind of hard to defend yourself when the NFL keeps changing their story.

We go from a sinister target players for injury program to a pay for performance program.

NFLPA had a voice analyst investigate the Hargrove video and the analyst claimed Hargrove didn't say "Bobby, give me my money". Not too mention the NFL changed what they were punishing Hargrove for.Hell I wonder if the NFL even knows what its evidence is.

I agree with you Jayrus patially in that I knew the NFL would uphold the suspensions and in Vilmas case it seems he does want to go to court from the beginning but probably because that it where he knows he has any kind of a chance.

Yes the players voted for Roger to keep these powers (with the exception of the Steelers who appear to be the smartest team and knew this type of thing would happen) but they did try to get Roger to release some of these powers before the new CBA and he refused.

*places tin foil hat one* would not surprise me if over the course of the year or several years if Vilma wins his case in an actual court and then Roger penalizes the Saints for being over the salary cap a year later because Vilma was technally a part of the team. *takes tin foil hat back off*

It's far from over unfortunately. I would hate too see another NFL team come under scrutiny for something I feel was minor that gets blown up into something major (well except maybe the Falcons ) I feel Roger abused his power for something he feels is the greater good of the league but abuse of power is still abuse of power.

Good new is training camp starts in less than a month and hopefully all this talk about "Bountygate" will die down and we can have some football. Bad news is with Vilma's impending lawsuit it will still pop up in the news.

[Eefluxx]

Quote

Scott Fujita, Anthony Hargrove, Will Smith and Jonathan Vilma were notified Tuesday that NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell has upheld the player discipline that was imposed for their roles in the New Orleans Saints' pay-for-performance "bounty" program.

I wonder if they were notified by watching ESPN and the NFL Network reporting it like last time or if they actually recieved a phone call or letter this time.

[Jayrus]

Eefluxx, on 04 July 2012 - 10:53 AM, said:

It's far from over unfortunately. I would hate too see another NFL team come under scrutiny for something I feel was minor that gets blown up into something major (well except maybe the Falcons ) I feel Roger abused his power for something he feels is the greater good of the league but abuse of power is still abuse of power.

Good new is training camp starts in less than a month and hopefully all this talk about "Bountygate" will die down and we can have some football. Bad news is with Vilma's impending lawsuit it will still pop up in the news.

On this we agree. This isn't over. The players will do whatever they can to get this into the courts. However, I think they first have to prove Goodell overstepped his authority and violated the CBA before they can don't they? They can't just PR their way past that. They'll actually have to present a case.

This post has been edited by Jayrus: 04 July 2012 - 01:14 PM

[Eefluxx]

Thought both of these would be a good read for anyone interested in the "Bounty" case.

They were written by a woman who is a Texans blogger and practices law.

Part 1

http://www.stradleyl...ate-common-qas/

Part 2

http://www.stradleyl...-bountygate-qa/

[Favre4Ever]

Thanatos19, on 03 July 2012 - 09:36 PM, said:

Bullshit.

I love how NFL.com keeps trying to spin this. This quote right here tells you that they are trying to spin it.



That was NOT the issue in question. The question was whether or not they had a pay-for-injury system going on.

Are you really surprised that NFL.com is spinning a story to have the NFL appear in a better light? lol

[Ngata_Chance]

Why is Codger Goodell still alive.

[Thanatos19]

Favre4Ever, on 09 July 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

Are you really surprised that NFL.com is spinning a story to have the NFL appear in a better light? lol

I'm not surprised in the slightest. I just said I love how they're blatantly spinning it.