[56AceInDaPlace]

Quote

Just stop saying that Durant isn't have a great offensive game, DMac. That argument alone nullifies the rest of what you're trying to say.

Well said.

This post has been edited by 56AceInDaPlace: 08 July 2012 - 11:33 AM

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F]

BwareDWare94, on 08 July 2012 - 10:01 AM, said:

Low offensive rebound numbers for Durant? Yeah, because he's a four or five battling it out down low. That statistic is REALLY important to the quality of his game.

Just stop saying that Durant isn't have a great offensive game, DMac. That argument alone nullifies the rest of what you're trying to say.

7 boards a game is a pretty damn good for a 3. Most threes don't average 10 or anything like that. C'mon, man.

Dwight Howard doesn't guarantee anything but 10+ technicals and a nightly double double. He needs the players around him as much as every other star.

He is not a great offensive player because their's more to offense than scoring points. And he excels at none of them. When you make a claim that a player is a great offensive player that means that his overall offensive game compares well with other players who fit under that category. That is not the case with Durant.

Being a great scorer and then being average to below average in every other category doesn't make you a great offensive player.

And the position he plays is irrelevant. He's a 6'9" (6'10") forward with a elite NBA wingspan averaging .6 OReb, their are guards who average more than him. Same thing with his defensive rebounds, the position he plays doesn't mean a damn thing, 7 rebounds is impressive for a 3 normally because they don't normally have elite size or length, that isn't the case with Durant. Either way, he is far from a great rebounder.

And way to underrate Howard, he doesn't guarantee anything? That argument alone nullifies everything.

You are telling me that a great center who puts up 21 points with high efficiency night in night out in the paint, is the definition of a great team and individual defense, is among the league's best in rebounds and blocks every year needs great teammates like... A great perimeter player who's impact to a team relies mostly on being able to score efficiently?

This post has been edited by DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F: 08 July 2012 - 12:27 PM

[seanbrock]

Zack_of_Steel, on 03 July 2012 - 07:17 PM, said:

KD is a great defender and an amazing scorer. Howard is an amazing defender and a great scorer. I'd say that it's more of a tossup, but if I had to pick one, it'd be KD. KD is humble and will take over at the end of a game and will hit game winning shots. Howard is a prima donna who can also take over, but he's not a threat from everywhere like KD is.

I agree with Zack but I'd like to add to it. Dwight Howard has his flaws offensively and he needs to improve them but I'd say that Kevin Durant could afford to be more selfish at crucial times. I think it's a toss up until Durant becomes a touch more agressive as well.

[BwareDWare94]

I give up on you, DMac. Not because I don't think you make good points or anything, but because this is getting too heated. I think we have to agree to disagree.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F]

BwareDWare94, on 08 July 2012 - 01:34 PM, said:

I give up on you, DMac. Not because I don't think you make good points or anything, but because this is getting too heated. I think we have to agree to disagree.

haha... On that we can agree on...

[Favre4Ever]

There is a fundamental flaw in your argument Dmac.

Durant is a PHENOMENAL rebounder. He's tall, long, out jumps most people on the court and just flat out goes after the basketball. He led his team in rebounds.... lol

Now, yes.... A large majority of those boards are on the defensive side... But why is it that he doesn't get offensive rebounds? Is it really because he doesn't have the skill set? Or is it because he isn't in situations that provide him to grab a bunch of boards offensively?

More times than not, Durant is further from the basket than anyone else on the OKC squad. Unless he is driving, he has no chance to grab those boards. And when he does drive, he is making the shot more times than not... Also limiting his offensive board totals.

The Thunder don't NEED him that close to the basket as frequently as it would take for him to be a real force on the offensive glass. Let the guys like Perkins, Ibaka, and Collison worry about those boards and let KD get back on defense and dominate back there instead.

You are discounting Durant as a player because of how not only he plays, but how the Thunder as a team play and operate.

That's not fair. If the Thunder needed him to dominate the offensive glass, he very well could.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F]

Favre4Ever, on 08 July 2012 - 11:40 PM, said:

There is a fundamental flaw in your argument Dmac.

Durant is a PHENOMENAL rebounder. He's tall, long, out jumps most people on the court and just flat out goes after the basketball. He led his team in rebounds.... lol

Now, yes.... A large majority of those boards are on the defensive side... But why is it that he doesn't get offensive rebounds? Is it really because he doesn't have the skill set? Or is it because he isn't in situations that provide him to grab a bunch of boards offensively?

More times than not, Durant is further from the basket than anyone else on the OKC squad. Unless he is driving, he has no chance to grab those boards. And when he does drive, he is making the shot more times than not... Also limiting his offensive board totals.

The Thunder don't NEED him that close to the basket as frequently as it would take for him to be a real force on the offensive glass. Let the guys like Perkins, Ibaka, and Collison worry about those boards and let KD get back on defense and dominate back there instead.

You are discounting Durant as a player because of how not only he plays, but how the Thunder as a team play and operate.

That's not fair. If the Thunder needed him to dominate the offensive glass, he very well could.

Phenomenal?... idk about that... Especially when you consider that even his defensive rebounding rate isn't all that great when compared to the rest of the league.

OKC plays a lot of small ball basketball lineup with Harden+RW+KD+ sometimes Thabo where Ibaka and Perkins either both hit the bench or one hits the bench and not the other, or they are both on the bench and Collisson comes in. Which ends up with KD "playing the 4" on defense... It gets pretty easy to grab defensive boards when you are the longest player on a squad of guys who are all pretty much average rebounders (aside from Serge on the offensive glass).

And like I said, considering his size, even though I know he's a perimeter player first, .6 is still pretty bad offensively. Especially when you consider that he was 6th among SF with around 5 shot attempts at the rim a game, and was 3rd among SF with 2.1 attempts 3-9 ft from the basket... .6? Really?

When OKC faced MIA in the finals, every single game they lost, they were out rebounded, and KD has dome awful games on both end of the glass... Pretty sure he had 2 total one game, can't remember which one. If you are getting out rebounded so badly, I'm pretty sure if KD was capable of being some dominant glass eater Brooks would of asked him to grab more. KD is way too inconsistent on the boards to be considered dominant...

This post has been edited by DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F: 09 July 2012 - 02:59 AM

[Favre4Ever]

DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F, on 09 July 2012 - 02:58 AM, said:

Phenomenal?... idk about that... Especially when you consider that even his defensive rebounding rate isn't all that great when compared to the rest of the league.

OKC plays a lot of small ball basketball lineup with Harden+RW+KD+ sometimes Thabo where Ibaka and Perkins either both hit the bench or one hits the bench and not the other, or they are both on the bench and Collisson comes in. Which ends up with KD "playing the 4" on defense... It gets pretty easy to grab defensive boards when you are the longest player on a squad of guys who are all pretty much average rebounders (aside from Serge on the offensive glass).

And like I said, considering his size, even though I know he's a perimeter player first, .6 is still pretty bad offensively. Especially when you consider that he was 6th among SF with around 5 shot attempts at the rim a game, and was 3rd among SF with 2.1 attempts 3-9 ft from the basket... .6? Really?

When OKC faced MIA in the finals, every single game they lost, they were out rebounded, and KD has dome awful games on both end of the glass... Pretty sure he had 2 total one game, can't remember which one. If you are getting out rebounded so badly, I'm pretty sure if KD was capable of being some dominant glass eater Brooks would of asked him to grab more. KD is way too inconsistent on the boards to be considered dominant...

Yes, he is a very good rebounder.. lol

He was above guys like Bosh and LBJ and behind all the elite guys like Howard, Cousins, Love, Bynum.. Etc etc.

Oh.. But what do those players have in common... Howard...Cousins...Love...Bynum. They play like directly under the rim. lmao. Shocking that guys who play the rim get more offensive boards while a guy who plays further from the rim has less.

And KD had nearly 5 shot attempts at the rim a game? You realize a shot attempt at the rim is like.. A dunk, layup, or a tip... How many of those shots is KD actually missing in order to grab a rebound? LMAO.

His shot attempts near the rim is also extremely misleading.... Because he isn't only able to grab offensive boards on his own shots.

A) he isn't going to miss those shots very often. And...
B) he doesn't play under the rim to grab the offensive boards from other players missing shots. After the shot goes up, he is reading to get back on D. Unless the ball takes a lucky bounce and winds up on the perimeter, he isn't going to get those boards.

The elite guys like Love, Bynum, and Howard have the size to get hem.. But they are also in position to grab the missed shots that their teammates throw up.

And you don't need to preach to me about the Thunder getting absolutely DESTROYED down low and on the boards. Go read the Finals threads, I was saying the same exact thing and I was pretty much the only one saying it.

I still contest that if Brooks wanted KD to crash the boards and play more physical down low that he could. I don't think he is asked to play like that or that type of style... So why are we expecting him to grab a bunch of offensive boards? It makes no sense.

It's like bashing Howard because he doesn't shoot 3s. Of course he doesn't shoot threes. Although, maybe that's a bad comparison.. Because Dwight can't shoot 3s while KD at least has the skill set to crash the glass.

This post has been edited by Favre4Ever: 09 July 2012 - 02:47 PM

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F]

KD is a better rebounder then LBJ and Bosh? Are you being serious? There is no way KD is a better rebounder then LBJ and Bosh. Lol. You can even make the argument that he isn't even a top 3-5 rebounder among SF.

Seems to me like your just making excuses to why he isn't a great rebounder.

The amount of makes he gets around the rim and close enough to the rim are also irrelevant, the fact of the matter is that he still spends time down their. Kobe Bryant is a guard, takes less shots around the rim then KD and even he is able to contribute 1 offensive rebound a game, there's no excuse for a guy who's 6'10 with almost a 7'5" wingspan to be a complete non factor on the offensive boards unless he literally lives on the perimeter, and never spends any time in the paint. None. Especially when he averages 38+ minutes a game.

There is no way in hell KD would be a great rebounder if he was in the low post more often because he doesn't have the aggression, or the bang to hang with guys down low. Like I said, if the guy is a great rebounder, he'd contribute consistently on the boards, especially when it gets tight and teams are fighting for every board.