Flag will not be lowered to half mast for Chris Kyle.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

It is time to bring my Facebook drama to you fine folks.

 

 

Me being very pro military, and open minded on the same side, this has created a shit storm on my Facebook. Someone posted it on my wall and considering I check it about once a week I had 76 alerts. All on this.

 

I cant in all honesty say I care. I mean would it be appropriate to at least acknowledge this....absolutely. However it is pretty common place because as anyone who pays attention realizes, our "commander-in-chief" has not ever giving a flying fuck about the military. So I dont expect it and am not outraged about it but know that I should be. I will probably use it as a reason to be mad later on.

 

Anyway. I want to know what you guys think. Is this a huge grievance and lapse in priorities, or is it just an oversight, or does he indeed just not give a shit, or is it just not a big deal and us military folks are being too sensitive ?

[oochymp 2,393]

honestly, I think it's more absurd that the flags were at half staff for Whitney Houston than that they aren't being lowered for Chris Kyle

[Omerta+ 1,206]

honestly, I think it's more absurd that the flags were at half staff for Whitney Houston than that they aren't being lowered for Chris Kyle

 

I agree with that. I can not believe Obama thought that was a good idea. That was a,"What The Fuck Were You Thinking ?" moment for me. I could not believe he has done that. If you are going to set the bar that low then it should be lowered for people who have dead pets. It is a damn shame.

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

I think Chris Kyle was a self-serving cunt and I really don't care either way.

[BwareDWare94 723]

Whitney Houston was an African American celebrity. What did you expect Obama to do, and do you think a white president would have done it? I don't. I think he did more so because he'd have faced huge backlash from half of his own ethnicity had he not done it.

 

As for Chris Kyle, I didn't know him personally, but no matter what somebody has done, they earn my respect by earning my respect in my presence. Not that I don't respect people I don't know, but I didn't know the guy. Had he been an asshole, I guarantee you I wouldn't give two shits about this.

 

Also, what exactly is honorable about how many confirmed kills he has? I don't care. If he saved other soldiers and civilians, great, but that confirmed kills number means nothing.

 

This is, absolutely, not a big deal.

[oochymp 2,393]

I agree with that. I can not believe Obama thought that was a good idea. That was a,"What The Fuck Were You Thinking ?" moment for me. I could not believe he has done that. If you are going to set the bar that low then it should be lowered for people who have dead pets. It is a damn shame.

yeah, I don't like lowering the flags by Presidential proclamation anyway, it just creates too much of a subjective standard IMO, if you're going to lower it for Houston how can you decline lowering it for any celebrities? But honestly, the same could be said for Kyle, if you're going to lower the flag to half staff for him, why not lower the flags for every dying soldier? but then you'd almost never have the flags at full staff, actually, I'd be interested to see how the public would react to that

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

Whitney Houston was an African American celebrity. What did you expect Obama to do, and do you think a white president would have done it? I don't. I think he did more so because he'd have faced huge backlash from half of his own ethnicity had he not done it.

 

As for Chris Kyle, I didn't know him personally, but no matter what somebody has done, they earn my respect by earning my respect in my presence. Not that I don't respect people I don't know, but I didn't know the guy. Had he been an asshole, I guarantee you I wouldn't give two shits about this.

 

Also, what exactly is honorable about how many confirmed kills he has? I don't care. If he saved other soldiers and civilians, great, but that confirmed kills number means nothing.

 

This is, absolutely, not a big deal.

 

The kill number should mean nothing, but to the general public, the more "savages" one kills, the greater hero they were while in the military. That's ridiculous, but I can't blame him for that.

 

What I can blame him for is his self-aggrandizing book and his made up story about punching Jesse Ventura that he used for publicity. Also, he was a self-appointed "crusader", lmao.

Edited February 12, 2013 by Zack_of_Steel

[BwareDWare94 723]

The kill number should mean nothing, but to the general public, the more "savages" one kills, the greater hero they were while in the military. That's ridiculous, but I can't blame him for that.

 

What I can blame him for is his self-aggrandizing book and his made up story about punching Jesse Ventura that he used for publicity. Also, he was a self-appointed "crusader", lmao.

 

See, these are the kinds of veterans that I don't give two shits about. I don't respect all veterans, and never have, because there are just too many who walk into the room and expect your respect just because of their service. Well fuck you, [insert name here], but I'll respect you if you're a human being of decent character. Fuckers.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

The kill number should mean nothing, but to the general public, the more "savages" one kills, the greater hero they were while in the military. That's ridiculous, but I can't blame him for that.

 

What I can blame him for is his self-aggrandizing book and his made up story about punching Jesse Ventura that he used for publicity. Also, he was a self-appointed "crusader", lmao.

 

A few things. Not all, but some of them savage is a really good word to use. And some of the stuff he did, and some of the missions were pretty damn heroic. Were they all grand and mystical ? I doubt it. However some of them you would have to have your balls screwed on tight for.

 

And the Jesse Ventura thing nobody will every know. Jesse and all his UDT buddy's (including the bar owner whom he was great friends with) denies it ever happened. All of Chris Kyle's buddy's say it was legit. So we will never know, although when it comes to being a huge douche bag Jesse sets the market.

 

The crusader bit...meh yeah that is probably pretty strong wording. However when they nickname you "The Devil of Ramadi" I find it hard to not believe your own hype. Although at that time when he was doing his thing in Ramadi, he probably did feel like he was on a personal crusade. Ramadi in that time was hell on earth man. I really cant describe it. He served in every major conflict in Iraqi Freedom. He probably did feel like he was on a crusade. I cant speak to it being justified or not, because I cant imagine the shit he did, especially as a guy who shared the same profession. Hearing stories about the guy from dudes in country gave you a pretty good impression that he was an all around good guy.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

See, these are the kinds of veterans that I don't give two shits about. I don't respect all veterans, and never have, because there are just too many who walk into the room and expect your respect just because of their service. Well fuck you, [insert name here], but I'll respect you if you're a human being of decent character. Fuckers.

 

"These" as in who ?

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

A few things. Not all, but some of them savage is a really good word to use. And some of the stuff he did, and some of the missions were pretty damn heroic. Were they all grand and mystical ? I doubt it. However some of them you would have to have your balls screwed on tight for.

 

And the Jesse Ventura thing nobody will every know. Jesse and all his UDT buddy's (including the bar owner whom he was great friends with) denies it ever happened. All of Chris Kyle's buddy's say it was legit. So we will never know, although when it comes to being a huge douche bag Jesse sets the market.

 

The crusader bit...meh yeah that is probably pretty strong wording. However when they nickname you "The Devil of Ramadi" I find it hard to not believe your own hype. Although at that time when he was doing his thing in Ramadi, he probably did feel like he was on a personal crusade. Ramadi in that time was hell on earth man. I really cant describe it. He served in every major conflict in Iraqi Freedom. He probably did feel like he was on a crusade. I cant speak to it being justified or not, because I cant imagine the shit he did, especially as a guy who shared the same profession. Hearing stories about the guy from dudes in country gave you a pretty good impression that he was an all around good guy.

 

I don't doubt that a lot of them are savage, but so are a lot of ours. I put it in quotations because it's become a colloquialism.

 

The "crusader" comment stemmed from the fact that he had the title tattooed on himself. His book is all over the place with attempting to paint himself in a humble light, while in the same breath saying he enjoyed killing and had fun in Iraq, lmao. That's psychotic.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

I don't doubt that a lot of them are savage, but so are a lot of ours. I put it in quotations because it's become a colloquialism.

 

The "crusader" comment stemmed from the fact that he had the title tattooed on himself. His book is all over the place with attempting to paint himself in a humble light, while in the same breath saying he enjoyed killing and had fun in Iraq, lmao. That's psychotic.

 

Oh hell yeah we have them too, that is not really a debate.

 

I bet he enjoyed it because of video games. His book tripped me out. It was almost like he was bipolar. Although I will bite my tongue because the guys is a legend to snipers and was one of the finest killers to have ever lived. However yeah killing for enjoyment and being indifferent about it are completely different

[Bucman 891]

Flag shouldn't have been flown half mast for Whitney Houston and it shouldn't be for Kyle either. I respect him for what he has down, but military people die every day he is no more valuable then them, no matter what kinda sniper he was.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

And that was really at the heart of this. How are you going to lower it for a crack addled bitch who squandered an opportunity and fortune that few people ever get. Drowns in a bathtub because of it and we decide to fly it at half most. Obama fucked that one up left and right.

 

Should it be lowered for Cris Kyle ? No not in my opinion. Was he bad son of a bitch ? definitely. I really dont think it should be lowered though..ever. Nobody is more important than anyone else, I dont give a damn if it is the president or the Sandy hook victims. Is it all tragic sure.

 

That all being said you dont lower the flag unless you see Bruce Willis, and it is Armageddon in this bitch.

[Maverick 791]

Whitney Houston was an African American celebrity. What did you expect Obama to do, and do you think a white president would have done it? I don't. I think he did more so because he'd have faced huge backlash from half of his own ethnicity had he not done it.

 

I have a huge problem with this. Just because you expect something doesn't make it right. I don't know where you're headed with your white president comment, but it's irrelevant. No president should do this. It's retarded and embarrassing that we're honoring such a person. And give me a break about that 'ethnicity backlash' bullshit.

[BwareDWare94 723]

"These" as in who ?

 

The veterans who think they're entitled to my respect, as well as the respect of other normal civilians. I have no obligation to respect them, but I am perfectly willing to if they don't portray that entitlement. Make any sense?

[blotsfan 2,112]

See, these are the kinds of veterans that I don't give two shits about. I don't respect all veterans, and never have, because there are just too many who walk into the room and expect your respect just because of their service. Well fuck you, [insert name here], but I'll respect you if you're a human being of decent character. Fuckers.

Can't agree with this more.

[BwareDWare94 723]

I have a huge problem with this. Just because you expect something doesn't make it right. I don't know where you're headed with your white president comment, but it's irrelevant. No president should do this. It's retarded and embarrassing that we're honoring such a person. And give me a break about that 'ethnicity backlash' bullshit.

 

She hurt herself--we know this--but did she harm anyone else? And what exactly is wrong with honoring somebody who's died? Come on, man. Have a little empathy. She wasn't a pedophile or a mass murderer. We didn't go half mast for Charles Manson or Ted Bundy, here.

 

Should we have half-masted one day for Chris Kyle? Sure. Yeah, sure, but imagine the precedent set by half-masting for a veteran? Why don't we just fly half mast every day until it isn't special anymore?

[Thanatos 2,847]

I kinda disagree with you Bware.

 

I understand where you are coming from, there are veterans who are assholes about it, and wish to be entitled to everything. In a sense, however, every man or woman who has gone and fought in a war on our behalf does deserve respect. They have done something that most of us could never even consider doing.

 

So long as they didn't do something criminal to forfeit that respect, I think they do deserve it.

[BwareDWare94 723]

I kinda disagree with you Bware.

 

I understand where you are coming from, there are veterans who are assholes about it, and wish to be entitled to everything. In a sense, however, every man or woman who has gone and fought in a war on our behalf does deserve respect. They have done something that most of us could never even consider doing.

 

So long as they didn't do something criminal to forfeit that respect, I think they do deserve it.

 

It's just another job, man. I farmed many acres of wheat last year and helped produce many different food products that we eat on a daily basis. Do I expect you to respect me for that, even though it's something that you may never consider doing? No. Not at all. We all have our own jobs; we all choose our own occupations. I might go so far to say that I respect any draftees because they were forced to go through this shit, but people who openly enlist, by their own choice, are no different than you and I for choosing our occupations. They made their beds and get to lie in them. They do not deserve my respect any more than the baker who can make a pastry of a quality far beyond anything I could ever prepare in the kitchen.

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

I'm on board with Bware here. Many people that join the military don't do it for a noble cause. Chris Kyle stated multiple times that he had fun in Iraq and would do it again, lol. There are plenty of stupid fucks around here that were once in the military that treat everyone like trash and only really went into the military for themselves. Those type of people don't reserve respect, imo.

 

EDIT: By "around here" I mean where I live, not TGP.

Edited February 13, 2013 by Zack_of_Steel

[Thanatos 2,847]

It's just another job, man. I farmed many acres of wheat last year and helped produce many different food products that we eat on a daily basis. Do I expect you to respect me for that, even though it's something that you may never consider doing? No. Not at all. We all have our own jobs; we all choose our own occupations. I might go so far to say that I respect any draftees because they were forced to go through this shit, but people who openly enlist, by their own choice, are no different than you and I for choosing our occupations. They made their beds and get to lie in them. They do not deserve my respect any more than the baker who can make a pastry of a quality far beyond anything I could ever prepare in the kitchen.

 

You honestly that is the same as voluntarily going into a situation where people are trying to actively kill you?

 

I mean, yeah, if they're doing ti for douchebag reasons they don't deserve respect. All I'm saying is, I give it to them unless they show me they don't deserve it. Maybe its just growing up as a military kid and having to watch two of my friends go through losing a parent.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

I don't even know if farmers farm anymore. . My grandpa is getting close to 70 and hasn't actually drove a tractor, combine, etc etc for almost a decade. Technology is amazing!

 

Anyhow, I am not sure how being a military person is "just another job". That's just categorically false. People have to earn respect, for sure. But I like to think I respect all people and all walks of life, especially those in the service industry. From the farmers to the cooks to the waiters.

 

I think there is a difference between respecting the work people do and respecting the people themselves. I am not much a fan of Mr. Kyle, for many reasons Zack has already stated. However, whether he wanted to go or not, whether he liked it or not.. He filled a service to out country and society.

 

There are A LOT of people who play vital roles in our society regardless of their job or pay grade, it's important to respect them all, IMO.

Edited February 13, 2013 by Favre4Ever

[Maverick 791]

She hurt herself--we know this--but did she harm anyone else? And what exactly is wrong with honoring somebody who's died? Come on, man. Have a little empathy. She wasn't a pedophile or a mass murderer. We didn't go half mast for Charles Manson or Ted Bundy, here.

 

Should we have half-masted one day for Chris Kyle? Sure. Yeah, sure, but imagine the precedent set by half-masting for a veteran? Why don't we just fly half mast every day until it isn't special anymore?

 

I'm not even arguing FOR Chris Kyle. I'm arguing against Whitney Houston. There's other ways to honor Whitney Houston. The E Channel is welcome to do an hour special on her. That's a respectable way to honor a public figure as herself. Lowering the flag half mast? No, sorry, last I checked that's not how crack-addict celebrities should be honored.

 

As far as the separate 'respect military' issue here, I've come to gripes with this before. I respect our military men. I've had several family members in the military. Supporting the troops is not an issue with me at all. However, much like BWare, Zack, etc, I do have a hard time respecting some of them. For example, I know a few people that fucked around all through high school, acted like punks both in and out, and now that they are reaping what they show in the real world, their fallback is the military.

 

Now all of a sudden because they are in the military, they expect the utmost respect from everybody around them. I have a tough time giving somebody like that my respect. The reason behind their enlisting wasn't to support our country but avoid a lifelong career at McDonalds. Does this type of man deserve my gratitude? Absolutely. Regardless of the reason, he's still out there fighting for this country making our lives safe. Does this type of man deserve my respect? Hmm...

[oochymp 2,393]

Should we have half-masted one day for Chris Kyle? Sure. Yeah, sure, but imagine the precedent set by half-masting for a veteran? Why don't we just fly half mast every day until it isn't special anymore?

but what sort of precedent did it set to fly the flag at half staff for Whitney Houston?