Ryan Shazier

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

I didn't know anything about Shazier, but I actually like the pick.

 

People slam him for his size and his trouble taking on blocks. Peole have questioned his value at 15 and wondered why the Steelers didn't trade down.

 

-Patrick Willis is 6'1" 240. NaVorro Bowman is 6' 242. This is their NFL playing weight. Shazier is coming out of college at 6'1" 237 and he's a better athlete. He could stand to add 10 pounds and likely will. Ray Lewis stated on air last night that he played at 220 in college and two years later was at 260 in the Super Bowl.

 

James Farrior played the Buck/SILB position at 220 for multiple years. The Buck is the LB that crashes the line and takes on blockers.

 

And since I don't feel like retyping what some guy on another site said:

Shazier isn't fast like Lawrence Timmons is fast. Ya know, "fast for his position," "builds up to good speed," all the cliches. He's extraordinarily fast. By his workout numbers, he might be the most explosive player in the entire draft - not LB, player. His Pro Day 40 was unofficially a fucking 4.35. Yes, Pro Day 40s are usually inflated, but even you call him a 4.45-4.50 guy, he's still among the NFL's fastest LBs as we speak. At the Combine, where everyone competed on even footing with impartial timers, he topped the field with his vertical and broad jumps. His 3-cone was good. He put up 25 reps on the bench (more than Clowney, more than Mack) despite relatively long arms. Simply put, he and Aaron Donald were the athletic superstars of the draft season.

-Shazier is going to be a Mack/WILB, the playmaking, run-and-hit, sideline-to-sideline guy. He is not supposed to be getting blocked; that's the point of the 3-4 and his position. The DL eats up blockers and keeps the LBs clean to make plays. He's a perfect fit at RILB.

 

-Shazier's tape shows a player that is quick as fuck, instinctive, a sure tackler, and plays amazingly in space. Many LBs cannot tackle coming out. He gets bounced around a bit by trash, but that's something that can be coached out of him and remedied by adding some weight, as I mentioned earlier. The Steelers have one of the best LB coaches in the league as well as a HoF DC. Shazier's one hole in his game is something coachable and we have the coaches for it. I'd much rather have a freak athlete that can be coached up than have trash like Jarvis Jones that has no strength or speed to speak of, even if he were to get better technically.

 

And how awesome will LeBeau's famous ILB crossfire blitz be with Shazier/Timmons?

 

-The Cowboys were on the phone with Ryan's agent and were set to pick him at 16. The Packers also supposedly were ready to pick him. The Steelers had no trade offers, so trading down was not an option and at that point, there were no players without issues/holes.

 

 

Shazier looks to be the ILB that I've been calling for since they passed on Sean Lee, Bowman, et cetera.

Edited May 9, 2014 by Zack_of_Steel

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Thank goodness you guys took him so that we didn't have to. You have my gratitude.

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

It seems to me that the people disparaging Shazier have a fundamental misunderstanding of the 3-4 defense.

 

If his only weakness is that he's not able to take on blocks, but his role in the 3-4 is never to be blocked, where's the problem?

 

This is like being down on a QB because he's not fast or able to throw on the run, but he's playing in a system that has him sit in the pocket. Sure, he might have to run once in a while, but it's not often.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

I just didn't like the way he moved, his point of attack is definitely very weak, and he overran a lot of plays from the little I watched of him. I am no pro scout, obviously.. So take that with a grain of salt.

A couple of things as far as why I would have hated him in Green Bay and one isn't his fault at all. Dom Capers over complicates stuff scheme-wise way too often and it seems like 90% of the time our players don't know their own roles or responsibilities. He would never break free playing for us, ever outside of the rare double ILB stunt or whatever. Reportedly Mike is going to be more hands-on with the defense and simplify it, but not exactly a risk I want to take. And again, that isn't his fault at all... Just talking from a fit with us.

The other thing is.. While you are right in the fact that it will be the job of your defense to make sure he is freed up -- that doesn't always happen. There will be plays, and a lot of them where he has to take on a blocker or where he will be free but he will be taken out of the play because it goes the other way or it's a quick read or some such thing.

The number of those plays will far outweigh the number of times the QB snaps the ball, and sits in the pocket for 5-6 seconds to even give Shazier the opportunity to make a play -- given the fact that he is able to run free and not be held up.

He isn't so much a play maker himself as he is dependent on everyone else making plays. Now, I understand you can say that at about every position and player in the league to a certain degree -- it is a team sport after all. I just think it defines Shazier and his style of play exponentially more than others.

With that said, there probably wasn't a better team for him to go to. A fundamentally epic and technically masterful defense like LeBeau's should, in theory, be enough to overlook some of his shortcomings. Would have despised him in Green Bay, but Pittsburgh might just work.

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

The other thing is.. While you are right in the fact that it will be the job of your defense to make sure he is freed up -- that doesn't always happen. There will be plays, and a lot of them where he has to take on a blocker or where he will be free but he will be taken out of the play because it goes the other way or it's a quick read or some such thing.

 

The number of those plays will far outweigh the number of times the QB snaps the ball, and sits in the pocket for 5-6 seconds to even give Shazier the opportunity to make a play -- given the fact that he is able to run free and not be held up.

 

He isn't so much a play maker himself as he is dependent on everyone else making plays. Now, I understand you can say that at about every position and player in the league to a certain degree -- it is a team sport after all. I just think it defines Shazier and his style of play exponentially more than others.

I was with you until this portion. The people spelling doom-and-gloom for Shazier are claiming that he'll have some 320 lb. guard hitting him in the second level every play. That just doesn't happen very often. If a guard is getting to the second level consistently, especially against a 3-4, the game's already lost as the offense will just run it for 500 yards.

 

As for the play going to the strong side (away from him), that's something he excels at. When the play goes away from him, he's in space and is able to use his speed/agility to get to the ball. Many of his tackles for a loss were on the strong side. This is why his insane athleticism is key.

 

The number of those plays will far outweigh the number of times the QB snaps the ball, and sits in the pocket for 5-6 seconds to even give Shazier the opportunity to make a play -- given the fact that he is able to run free and not be held up.

Are you assuming that he's playing 3-4 OLB? Earlier you mentioned his point of attack, something that doesn't really matter for a 3-4 WILB, which is the position he'll play. In the scenario where the QB is holding the ball for 5-6 seconds, Shazier will be in coverage, barring a blitz.

 

 

 

 

He's basically what Lawrence Timmons was coming out of college, only faster and more athletic. Timmons added weight and is one of the best 3-4 ILBs in the league, even making the transition to the Buck/SILB (the ILB that crashes the line and takes on FBs and OGs).

[Bucman 891]

I like Shazier. I see a lot of Lavonte David in him. He should be a great pro.

[CampinWithaMissingPerson 2,025]

I like Shazier a lot. Been praising him the entire college season. I remember gasping when I thought he got hurt seriously against Buffalo in the infamous "Khalil Mack" game.

 

I think he's the prospect everyone wanted Ogletree to be. He knows what he's seeing and uses his athletic gifts far more effectively than Ogletree. Uses his length real well, once he identifies it he explodes towards the ball (trusts what he sees.) He'll have trouble if OLs get a hold of him of course but as you know the role he's playing the plan isn't to let that happen. Kid's gonna be flying around everywhere.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

I am not talking necessarily about the line getting to the second level and coming to him so much as the other way around. Even when your Dline is playing perfectly and eating double teams and creating holes... Shazier gets held up fairly easily. The guard or center merely sticking their arms out while being blocked could be just enough to throw him off balance and give the opposing QBs enough time to deliver the ball.

The guy got held up a lot by college players who sometimes didn't even belong on the field... Won't go on to the NFL or even think about having meaningful or impactful careers at the next level. And again, I realize this happens to mostly every college player at some point. Even the greatest ones get held up at times by sub-par opponents. It just seems like I saw it more from Shazier than others

No, I am not saying he will be playing OLB. Just that I think you are undervaluing the number of times he actually will actually have to engage inside on those blitzes. Obviously they will be designed to let him shoot the gap free, but as you know it doesn't always work like that. I just feel like he is going to get held up A LOT, or at least be slowed down enough to neutralize his biggest attribute.

EDIT: I would like to restate that the Steelers (Lebeau) are master technicians more times than not and this may not be as much of an issue for them. If they can do their jobs and give him the space to go in untouched, he will undoubtedly cause havoc.

Edited May 9, 2014 by Favre4Ever

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

He's in the ideal situation with the Steelers. He flies around like nobody's business, and as long as he can be kept clean, he'll make a ton of plays.

 

Guys like Bowman, Washington, Butler all have managed to succeed due to supreme athletic ability, like Shazier.

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

I like Shazier. I see a lot of Lavonte David in him. He should be a great pro.

 

I like Shazier a lot. Been praising him the entire college season. I remember gasping when I thought he got hurt seriously against Buffalo in the infamous "Khalil Mack" game.

 

I think he's the prospect everyone wanted Ogletree to be. He knows what he's seeing and uses his athletic gifts far more effectively than Ogletree. Uses his length real well, once he identifies it he explodes towards the ball (trusts what he sees.) He'll have trouble if OLs get a hold of him of course but as you know the role he's playing the plan isn't to let that happen. Kid's gonna be flying around everywhere.

 

The David/Ogletree comparisons are ones that I've seen thrown around quite a bit. If they were his ceiling/floor, I'd be happy.

 

I don't have confidence in them starting Shazier right away, however, so it might be at least a year before we see him in action. It's so frustrating that the Steelers basically redshirt their rookies while other teams plug-and-play successfully.

 

 

I am not talking necessarily about the line getting to the second level and coming to him so much as the other way around. Even when your Dline is playing perfectly and eating double teams and creating holes... Shazier gets held up fairly easily. The guard or center merely sticking their arms out while being blocked could be just enough to throw him off balance and give the opposing QBs enough time to deliver the ball.

 

The guy got held up a lot by college players who sometimes didn't even belong on the field... Won't go on to the NFL or even think about having meaningful or impactful careers at the next level. And again, I realize this happens to mostly every college player at some point. Even the greatest ones get held up at times by sub-par opponents. It just seems like I saw it more from Shazier than others

 

No, I am not saying he will be playing OLB. Just that I think you are undervaluing the number of times he actually will actually have to engage inside on those blitzes. Obviously they will be designed to let him shoot the gap free, but as you know it doesn't always work like that. I just feel like he is going to get held up A LOT, or at least be slowed down enough to neutralize his biggest attribute.

 

EDIT: I would like to restate that the Steelers (Lebeau) are master technicians more times than not and this may not be as much of an issue for them. If they can do their jobs and give him the space to go in untouched, he will undoubtedly cause havoc.

Yeah, I know what you mean about him being knocked off course relatively easily. I think he has the frame to add weight like Timmons did and I believe that a lot of that could be coached out of him.

 

The way the Steelers blitz their ILBs is to have them come free through a gap. Generally, they're not going to be beating a block. If the blitz fails to produce a free runner, it's likely not going to be the ILB making the play.

 

Here's a perfect example of the ILB crossfire that LeBeau loves to run. Foote is the Buck/SILB and Farrior's the Mack/WILB. (Foote = Timmons, Farrior = Shazier)

 

 

He's in the ideal situation with the Steelers. He flies around like nobody's business, and as long as he can be kept clean, he'll make a ton of plays.

 

Guys like Bowman, Washington, Butler all have managed to succeed due to supreme athletic ability, like Shazier.

Also great comparisons. I'm hoping that they can upgrade the DL to help keep him clean since Keisel's gone and McClendon was a bit underwhelming as a starter (after dominating in a reserve role).

[seanbrock 1,684]

I stand by what I said. Idc what scheme it is, to be a LB there has to be a level of physicality. I don't think this guy has it.

[Turry 755]

Everybody who was knocking on Shazier playing in a 3-4, Do they not realize that Mosley is lighter than he is.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

Now I will just say these weights are bullshit to say the least.

 

 

This guy is bigger than this guy

 

 

 

 

Any takers ? Who really believes that ?

 

As to what Shazier will be, I think he is a smaller Zach Brown. He is fast and will be a decent player, I just dont see the value at 15 ? I mean that is what it is though. Honestly he will not keep me awake at night.

 

This is just to point out that believing what the NFL reports as true for weight is laughable.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Ngata_Chance

[Omerta+ 1,206]

Everybody who was knocking on Shazier playing in a 3-4, Do they not realize that Mosley is lighter than he is.

 

My previous post covers all I will say on the weight.

 

I will say this I am less than enthused we took Mosely instead of Pryor. I do think Mosely uses his hands better but I believe these two will just be mediocre pros. I think BAltimore had the shittiest draft in the NFL this year. I dont know what the fuck Ozzie was thinking, I find it no coincidence though that Ozzie kicks ass until we get a pretentious douche for a head coach. So yeah Shazier Mosely/Mosely Shazier, whatever not excited about either.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Ngata_Chance

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

I stand by what I said. Idc what scheme it is, to be a LB there has to be a level of physicality. I don't think this guy has it.

 

There are a plethora of LBs who make it in the league as WIL backers who are less physical then Shazier. The point of the position is to hide that weakness.

 

Have you seen Ogletree play in the league? DId you see him play at Georgia?

[seanbrock 1,684]

 

I stand by what I said. Idc what scheme it is, to be a LB there has to be a level of physicality. I don't think this guy has it.

 

There are a plethora of LBs who make it in the league as WIL backers who are less physical then Shazier. The point of the position is to hide that weakness.

 

Have you seen Ogletree play in the league? DId you see him play at Georgia?

 

I'm not a fan of Ogletree. The Eagles have a side line to side line player in their 3-4 who somebody here was saying was better than LaVonte David when they came out a couple years ago. He has no physicality to his game and he sucks.