Top 10 RB

[Cherry 1,302]

"Just because he doesn't do it doesn't mean he can't." is not a viable argument. You're comparing two sets of data with one being completely unproportioned to the other. That's like saying "Just because Peyton doesn't run doesn't mean he can't."

 

If AP gets a shitload of receptions this upcoming year and balls out doing the same stuff as Charles, I will retract that statement.

 

Don't get me wrong, based on pure running ability AP is a mile ahead of Charles. Based on all-around contribution this past year, I'll take Charles.

[Dutch 874]

"Just because he doesn't do it doesn't mean he can't." is not a viable argument. You're comparing two sets of data with one being completely unproportioned to the other. That's like saying "Just because Peyton doesn't run doesn't mean he can't."

 

How is that not a viable argument? Just saying it's not doesn't make it true. You can't say someone isn't capable of something if they haven't been given opportunities to do it. Also, no one is comparing two sets of data. Everyone knows Charles has more receiving stats. That's the role he was used in. A.P's value can't be diminished because his running ability still surpasses the running and receiving capabilities of the other backs. You can't topple a giant and anoint someone as the best of a position with 1 year especially (again) being one year removed from a historic 2,000 rushing yard campaign and followed up with another great season (even while being hurt for two games).

[BJORN 679]

For the 1000th time, Charles has only put up great receiving stats in one season. It's no coincidence that Alex Smith happened to be his QB for that season. I will admit that I was wrong for putting Lynch over Charles in my list but I just can't support the notion that Charles is better than AP. That's simply too far and I still slightly prefer Shady to Charles, for the record. His receiving numbers are skewed and that's the only semi-sensible reason why you would put him over AP is because of his impact in the receiving game. So yeah, if I'm building a team around Alex Smith give me Charles. Any other QB, I'm taking AP.

[Dutch 874]

So yeah, if I'm building a team around Alex Smith and want to pad QB stats, give me Charles.

 

Fixed*

Edited June 26, 2014 by Dutch

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

 

How is that not a viable argument? Just saying it's not doesn't make it true. You can't say someone isn't capable of something if they haven't been given opportunities to do it. Also, no one is comparing two sets of data. Everyone knows Charles has more receiving stats. That's the role he was used in. A.P's value can't be diminished because his running ability still surpasses the running and receiving capabilities of the other backs. You can't topple a giant and anoint someone as the best of a position with 1 year especially (again) being one year removed from a historic 2,000 rushing yard campaign and followed up with another great season (even while being hurt for two games).

 

Because it's pretty much appealing to ignorance.

 

If you want to talk, or have a debate as to how well AP will do as a receiver this year, or, if you want to discuss who you think will put up better numbers in that area, then by all means.

 

But, for the sake of comparison, and ranking, making statements like that are utterly irrelevant. Especially when you consider the fact that both have a sizeable amount of snaps on passing downs.

 

For the 1000th time, Charles has only put up great receiving stats in one season. It's no coincidence that Alex Smith happened to be his QB for that season. I will admit that I was wrong for putting Lynch over Charles in my list but I just can't support the notion that Charles is better than AP. That's simply too far and I still slightly prefer Shady to Charles, for the record. His receiving numbers are skewed and that's the only semi-sensible reason why you would put him over AP is because of his impact in the receiving game. So yeah, if I'm building a team around Alex Smith give me Charles. Any other QB, I'm taking AP.

 

Lol, stupid logic is stupid. If you're going to give anyone credit for Charles' yards through the air, it's Reid for utilizing Charles properly.

 

Additionally, its common knowledge to everyone except, apparently you, that Charles is a great receiving HB not just based on production (especially considering the fact he was splitting snaps with someone for the majority of his career) but also based on skill set.

 

Charles runs great, catches and runs great routes, blocks great, splits out wide as a WR. Adrian Peterson runs elite.

[BJORN 679]

Give McCoy 70 receptions, he puts up equal or better numbers. If you think Reid is responsible for Charles absurd usage, you weren't watching (not that I watch all Chiefs games, god save me if I did). Where did I say Charles wasn't a great receiving back? And I don't know why you continue to go on about the two back system when Charles was the primary back on passing downs in those years and had the lion's share of receptions. Was it a two back system in 2012? He only had 35 receptions and roughly 268 yards? I'm saying his stats are exaggerated beyond his norms. And I think he is being slightly overrated because of it. As I said, I was wrong about him being below Lynch. But he isn't better than McCoy by much, if at all. I prefer McCoy.

 

Skillset wise, Charles is the more versatile player but AP is by far and away the better runner. So I guess it comes down to preference.

[Dutch 874]

Because it's pretty much appealing to ignorance.

 

If you want to talk, or have a debate as to how well AP will do as a receiver this year, or, if you want to discuss who you think will put up better numbers in that area, then by all means.

 

But, for the sake of comparison, and ranking, making statements like that are utterly irrelevant. Especially when you consider the fact that both have a sizeable amount of snaps on passing downs.

 

 

Like you said, A.P has never been used in the same manner like Charles (in regards to receiving) so technically, we all have a lack of knowledge or information to make a fair assessment which makes us all ignorant. We have no basis for our judgement because he hasn't been used in that capacity. To say he can't when there is no real basis for what you're saying is ignorance in itself. And again, I'm not one for hypotheticals especially when I have no basis to go off of. No one has seen him do it so in reality it's all conjecture at this point.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Dutch

[Cherry 1,302]

 

 

Skillset wise, Charles is the more versatile player but AP is by far and away the better runner. So I guess it comes down to preference.

[AL_Royalty 489]

 

In fact, one could actually argue that Chris Johnson is in the same level of backs as Jamaal Charles and McCoy now. I feel incredibly against saying that, but I'm pretty sure I could if you look at the way Chris Johnson has run when he has actually gotten some line play like Charles has got on a consistent basis.

I've read through this entire thread (seeing as I'm a big reason for all this enthralling debate ) and have so much to say, but I just can't get past this. I've been looking at this topic from time to time for the last two days, and every time I get ready to respond to a bunch of stuff, this is the only thing that I can think of.

 

Not even Mikey or Alex would endorse this nonsense at this point, and they have an irrational love for the guy. Chris Johnson got CUT. Do you think that there's any way short of Charles being dead that he gets fucking cut? I don't even expect you to answer that.

 

When Johnson put up 2 stacks in a season, that was quite an incredible feat. That being said, who do you think has a better chance putting up even 1,400 this year? I'll give you a hint: if you answered CJ2YPC, you would be incorrect sir. The thing that's REALLY ridiculous about this statement though is that while Johnson was more of a one trick pony, McCoy and Charles are the epitome of a well-rounded, dynamic, versatile superstar back right now. CJ called himself a playmaker and not just a RB. That was a little silly, even if there was a kernel of truth to it. McCoy and Charles actually ARE what he was for a season and a half, and they pretty much always have been.

 

All of that though, as jaw-droppingly insulting as it may be to both backs, was topped off with you saying that CJ has never had the stellar line play that Charles has had on a regular basis. lolWUT?!? Where are all these HOFers that you seem to think Charles has leading the way for him?

 

Thomas Jones struggled to break 4 YPC the year that Charles wen't for 6.4 per. Last year he had two rookies, an injured and overrated LT, and some fill-ins blocking for him. Honestly, Charles might have been the best blocker on the team. If only he could block for himself, maybe he'd have gone for 1,800 yards. Seriously, the dude has been running behind sub-par lines for pretty much his entire career, and in doing so has amassed the highest YPC number of any qualifying back in NFL history. That means ever.

 

That's all I have for now.

[oochymp 2,393]

Not even Mikey or Alex would endorse this nonsense at this point, and they have an irrational love for the guy. Chris Johnson got CUT. Do you think that there's any way short of Charles being dead that he gets fucking cut? I don't even expect you to answer that.

First of all, I don't disagree with your premise at all, CJ is not on par with Charles or McCoy, so please don't take this post as a full defense of CJ. That said, I decided I needed to respond to this point because Chris Johnson was cut for one reason: money. I'm not saying CJ is still one of the best backs in the league or that his play hasn't regressed at all (the league figured out how to contain him and he didn't or couldn't adjust) but if he'd been on a more reasonable contract he probably would still be a Titan.

 

CJ made $10M last year and was set to make another $8M this year. For comparison, Charles' current contract has yet to top $4M base in any season and was only worth $4.4M in base over last year and this year combined (next year it'll be $4.75M barring an extension, which will almost certainly happen) if Charles had a contract giving him that much he would at least be asked to take a significant pay cut, it's just too much to pay any RB.

[seanbrock 1,684]

Give McCoy 70 receptions, he puts up equal or better numbers. If you think Reid is responsible for Charles absurd usage, you weren't watching (not that I watch all Chiefs games, god save me if I did). Where did I say Charles wasn't a great receiving back? And I don't know why you continue to go on about the two back system when Charles was the primary back on passing downs in those years and had the lion's share of receptions. Was it a two back system in 2012? He only had 35 receptions and roughly 268 yards? I'm saying his stats are exaggerated beyond his norms. And I think he is being slightly overrated because of it. As I said, I was wrong about him being below Lynch. But he isn't better than McCoy by much, if at all. I prefer McCoy.

 

Skillset wise, Charles is the more versatile player but AP is by far and away the better runner. So I guess it comes down to preference.

McCoy had 78 receptions for 592 yards in 2010, but really that's just because McCoy is great in space tbh. He doesn't really have any receiver skills other than above average hands for a RB. To this point McCoy hasn't shown that you can line him up all of the formation like Charles has as a receiver. Not saying McCoy is a bad receiver, but Charles is just better than him at that aspect of the game. He's certainly better than AP at it and if you don't think the Vikings have thought to try to get the ball in Peterson's hands in the passing game you're a fool lol. The guy has spent the majority of his career carrying the Vikings offense.

[AL_Royalty 489]

First of all, I don't disagree with your premise at all, CJ is not on par with Charles or McCoy, so please don't take this post as a full defense of CJ. That said, I decided I needed to respond to this point because Chris Johnson was cut for one reason: money. I'm not saying CJ is still one of the best backs in the league or that his play hasn't regressed at all (the league figured out how to contain him and he didn't or couldn't adjust) but if he'd been on a more reasonable contract he probably would still be a Titan.

 

CJ made $10M last year and was set to make another $8M this year. For comparison, Charles' current contract has yet to top $4M base in any season and was only worth $4.4M in base over last year and this year combined (next year it'll be $4.75M barring an extension, which will almost certainly happen) if Charles had a contract giving him that much he would at least be asked to take a significant pay cut, it's just too much to pay any RB.

Yeah, i know CJ was getting "playmakmer" money, but even if Charles was getting that kind of money, I don't think that there's any way he gets cut right now. That was my point. I'm well aware of the contract situation. I'm sure at some point he'd be asked to restructure, and I completely agree that no RB is worth that kind of money, especially in the state the league is in now. That being said, there's no way Charles would not be cut this season, no matter how much he was getting paid.

[BJORN 679]

McCoy had 78 receptions for 592 yards in 2010, but really that's just because McCoy is great in space tbh. He doesn't really have any receiver skills other than above average hands for a RB. To this point McCoy hasn't shown that you can line him up all of the formation like Charles has as a receiver. Not saying McCoy is a bad receiver, but Charles is just better than him at that aspect of the game. He's certainly better than AP at it and if you don't think the Vikings have thought to try to get the ball in Peterson's hands in the passing game you're a fool lol. The guy has spent the majority of his career carrying the Vikings offense.

lolMe. But I think McCoy has improved since '10 and yes he is great in space. Charles is more skilled in the receiving game but I think McCoy would put up similar numbers production wise now. For the record, I guess lining up my RB at WR isn't really something I look for, so I don't put too much stock in that part of Charles' game. It's my preference in that regard.

[seanbrock 1,684]

lolMe. But I think McCoy has improved since '10 and yes he is great in space. Charles is more skilled in the receiving game but I think McCoy would put up similar numbers production wise now. For the record, I guess lining up my RB at WR isn't really something I look for, so I don't put too much stock in that part of Charles' game. It's my preference in that regard.

Worked out pretty well for guys like Brian Westbrook and the great Marshall Faulk. I don't think it matters how you get the yards and TD's. I think McCoy has improved since 2010 but not much as a receiver. He's a much more decisive and at the same time much more patient as a runner than when he came into the league. LeSean McCoy is a mismatch against any defender in space but he won't line up at WR and beat a CB and honestly not a lot of safeties either. The Eagles didn't just go out and trade for Sproles to lighten McCoy's load. He brings an extra element to the passing game. Not only is Charles a better route runner than McCoy but he actually has the speed to take the top off the defense. McCoy doesn't, his game is about agility and how fast he can go from 0-100.

 

I think you are right though, LeSean McCoy could get better as a receiver and he definitely has the opportunity to learn because Sproles is the biggest receiving threat at RB in the league.

[Dutch 874]

Has anyone actually seen Charles line up as a receiver? I've seen him come out of the back field a lot and involved in the screen game. But not necessarily lining up as a receiver (X,Y,Z) like I've seen Marshall Faulk and Brian Westbrook do. Maybe a handful of times but not something I saw out of him a lot to give a whole lot of praise in that area.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Dutch

[Dutch 874]

Here are some highlights on the 3.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You guys can say whatever you want about receiving stats, the eye test tells me A.P is a much more dominant RB and is still the best RB in the league lol.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

Has anyone actually seen Charles line up as a receiver? I've seen him come out of the back field a lot and involved in the screen game. But not necessarily lining up as a receiver (X,Y,Z) like I've seen Marshall Faulk and Brian Westbrook do. Maybe a handful of times but not something I saw out of him a lot to give a whole lot of praise in that area.

 

Against Jacksonville alone, he lined up 5 times as either a receiver or flex. He played almost half the amount of snaps in that game then in every other game.

 

Flex:

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll79/number66_2008/Picture4.png

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll79/number66_2008/Picture3.png

 

Flanker, also beat his man for a 15 yard gain:

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll79/number66_2008/Picture5.png

 

Slot in trips:

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll79/number66_2008/Picture2.png

 

Slot in a spread:

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll79/number66_2008/Picture1-1.png

 

Couple more against the Dallas Cowboys (I stopped a couple minutes through the second quarter), At the top on all the plays.

 

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll79/number66_2008/Picture6.png

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll79/number66_2008/Picture7.png

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll79/number66_2008/Picture8.png

 

He's always been used every way imaginable.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

This is AP's greatest highlight...

[Dutch 874]

NFL defenders that are playing today, or guys that had to play against Sanders? Maybe it's just because I've had the guy on a pedestal for decades, but growing up watching the guy, I honestly don't see any comparison. McCoy is a great back in today's NFL, but I don't see any flashes of Barry. I haven't seen that in anyone since, well, Barry. I get what you're saying as far as styles I guess, but there has never been a time that I was watching McCoy and thought to myself, "Wow. That was almost like something Barry used to do."

 

I'm not taking anything away from the guy, so don't get your Eagles underoos in a bunch. I just don't see it.

 

Apparently I'm not the only person who has seen flashes of Barry Sanders in Shady's game.

 

[Dutch 874]

Only doing RB's that are currently in the league so that excludes A.P from still being #1 . This list is not primarily all about stats. It's about my eye test.

 

1. Jamaal Charles - Bowe, I finally submit. J.C is currently the best RB in the league in my opinion now. He is definitely a RB that can thrive in any type of situation in my opinion and he can do it all and can hit a home run from anywhere on the field. McCoy may be more entertaining to watch, but I'll give my reasoning on why I think McCoy isn't better later in this list.

 

2. Arian Foster - I'm sorry, all this guy does is produces; at a high level at that and is effective in the passing game. The zone block run scheme doesn't spit out Arian Foster's production on every team at the level he does so that's not really a knock on him for me anymore. He has excellent patience, great vision, and knows when to hit the hole and gets positive yardage. Foster is a force.

 

3. Le'veon Bell - I'm totally disregarding my consistency stripe rule here, but this kid is playing unbelievable and I simply could not leave him off my list. He's easily been one of my favorite and most entertaining RB's to watch this year. He has good patience, he has great stop and start agility, crisp cuts, awesome spin moves, a major threat in the receiving game and is simply a fantastic play maker. Another year like he's having this year will definitely have me more confident about his current ranking and hoping he's not a one year wonder (see Doug Martin). My only knock is that I'd just like him to see the end zone more.

 

4. Demarco Murray - One of the toughest RB's in the league and hands down has the meanest stiff arm. Murray has played out of his mind this year and has been virtually almost unstoppable. His success in the running game is without a doubt a huge reason why Dallas is 8-4 right now. His offensive line has been great for him this season; elite really (outside of last week ) but Murray also gets a lot of yards after contact.

 

5. Matt Forte - Incredibly underrated and has been one of the most productive players on offense in the league for years. You can virtually play him anywhere on the offense and he can produce. Forte is the most dangerous RB receiving threat in the game and the most versatile RB hands down.

 

6. Marshawn Lynch - Beast Mode just can't be stopped. Easily the toughest RB in the league and he plays old school hard nosed smash mouth football. He gets the tough yards, he gets the easy yards, he just keeps the chains moving straight locomotive style.

 

7. Lesean McCoy - This may come as a surprise but I had to do some real analyzing here and had to take off the homer shades. The Eagles obviously had some offensive line issues in the beginning of the year. However, there were still plays to be made a lot of the times but shady's vision just wasn't there. There were creases and opportunities for him to make plays but he spent so much time going east to west, lateral play trying to juke someone instead of getting the positive yardage.

 

Also at times he seemed to play scared going east and west instead of getting the yards towards the defender. He's hands down one of the most exciting players to watch especially in the open field but his style of play left more to be desired when there were plays to be made even with that patched up offensive line. He simply just wasn't hitting the holes; always going east to west running away from the straight ahead defender and trying to bounce outside. When McCoy struggled behind that line, Darren Sproles made plays when we needed and the reason for that was because Sproles saw the crease and HIT it fast! He didn't waste time juking back and forth but saw the hole and went for it. He wasn't afraid of the contact and just got the yards. For this very reason, I call for Sproles to get more playing time than he does especially in the redzone. I think our offense would be MUCH better if we used Sproles in the redzone over McCoy.

 

Shady is playing great right now but so is our offensive line which is playing at an incredible level. A lot of McCoy's plays are through the gaping holes our offensive line is creating and then Shady does what he does in the open field. It seems some RB's can do more with less. That's not to say Shady can't make a play out of nothing which we've all seen before, but watching him closely, he appears to be more reliant on the offensive line than other elite RB's at the point of attack.

 

8. Alfred Morris

 

9. Justin Forsett Ray Rice who? He has been playing great and the Ravens never skipped a beat.

 

10. Eddie Lacy

 

Honorable Mention:

 

I really struggled to not let my bias take over and put Jeremy Hill on here. I love the way that kid runs the rock. Just need more of a sample size though. I definitely forsee Gio's snap count drop and literally be used as a scat back; Darren Sproles style. Props to Lamar Miller too.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Dutch

[Dutch 874]

3. Le'veon Bell - I'm totally disregarding my consistency stripe rule here, but this kid is playing unbelievable and I simply could not leave him off my list. He's easily been one of my favorite and most entertaining RB's to watch this year. He has good patience, he has great stop and start agility, crisp cuts, awesome spin moves, a major threat in the receiving game and is simply a fantastic play maker. Another year like he's having this year will definitely have me more confident about his current ranking and hoping he's not a one year wonder (see Doug Martin). My only knock is that I'd just like him to see the end zone more.

 

Scores 3 TDs

[Bay 2,003]

Frank Gore's time as a top 10 back is over. He had a good run. Move over Frank- let the young bucks take over like you once did in 2006 en route to that monster season.

[Dutch 874]

Frank Gore's time as a top 10 back is over. He had a good run. Move over Frank- let the young bucks take over like you once did in 2006 en route to that monster season.

 

Yeah, it feels weird not having Gore in my top 10. Gore's time is over though. At least being considered as one of the top backs in the league. He lasted longer than Steven Jackson though. When it's all said and done, what do you guys think of Gore's chances getting into the Hall?

Edited December 10, 2014 by Dutch

[Thanatos 2,847]

 

Yeah, it feels weird not having Gore in my top 10. Gore's time is over though. At least being considered as one of the top backs in the league. He lasted longer than Steven Jackson though. When it's all said and done, what do you guys think of Gore's chances getting into the Hall?

 

Not a chance, IMO.

[Bay 2,003]

The homer/heart in me says yes, head says no.