seanbrock 1,684 Posted August 22, 2014 This thread isn't about picking obvious guys like Tom Brady or Troy Polamalu or something. I picked age 26 because these guys have played through their rookie deals or in some cases are so good so early that we see the potential. Tyron Smith- As much as I hate the Cowboys, Tyron Smith came into the league at 20 years old and has been pretty elite ever since. He's only getting better. It's hard to say what this guy's ceiling is but if he stays healthy he'll do big things. LaVonte David- After only a couple years after Derrick Brooks' career ended, they get another great LB at the same spot with a lot of the same skills. You watch tape of this guy at any level and his instincts jump off the tape immediately. He's proved he can do it all and do it all at a very high level from the moment he stepped on the field. I know there's more. Let's have it 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BJORN 679 Posted August 22, 2014 (edited) Earl Thomas JJ Watt Edited August 22, 2014 by BJORN 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KempBolt 498 Posted August 22, 2014 Russell Wilson: We know that QB's with rings have great shots at the HOF. Wilson already has one and he's just entering his 3rd season. It's not all that crazy to think he gets at least one more in his career. And his steady progress as a passer should provide the numbers he would need to go along with the rings. Larry Warford: Genuinely dominant as a rookie. So much so that he was actually able to get noticed by the general media… at guard! Watching him, I see no reason why we should expect regression. If he puts a long career together at that level of play, he should get in. Keenan Allen: Emphasis on potential, but the list of guys who did what Allen did as a rookie (71/1046/8) is very short and puts him in excellent company. Watching him play, you can see he isn't fool's gold either. His game more than backs up the numbers. It's up to him to build now on his great start. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oochymp 2,393 Posted August 22, 2014 Russell Wilson is an interesting guy to bring up, it's certainly too early to rule him out, as is the case with most sub-26 year olds, and the fact that he already has a ring does help his cause, but a Super Bowl win is a team accomplishment and Wilson hasn't done much as an individual, especially with the numbers QBs are putting up now, and that should be a huge strike against him, again I wouldn't rule him out in his second year, but I think a guy like Andrew Luck, who is actually putting up the numbers you expect from QBs in today's NFL and should be at least in playoff contention for a while probably stands a better chance if we're setting odds based on what we've seen so far 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Attyla the Hawk 197 Posted August 22, 2014 (edited) Robert Quinn Earl Thomas Richard Sherman Russell Wilson Navarro Bowman (if he has no lingering injury issues) Those would by my NFCW candidates. Russell Wilson is an interesting guy to bring up, it's certainly too early to rule him out, as is the case with most sub-26 year olds, and the fact that he already has a ring does help his cause, but a Super Bowl win is a team accomplishment and Wilson hasn't done much as an individual, especially with the numbers QBs are putting up now, and that should be a huge strike against him, again I wouldn't rule him out in his second year, but I think a guy like Andrew Luck, who is actually putting up the numbers you expect from QBs in today's NFL and should be at least in playoff contention for a while probably stands a better chance if we're setting odds based on what we've seen so far Luck is worthy of this list. Obviously titles do matter. Aikman is in despite having modest statistical greatness. At a time when plenty of QBs were putting up awesome numbers. If we wanted to draw a close statistical comparison, I'd offer Steve Young. He only eclipsed the 4k mark twice. Has only 4 seasons with more yards than Wilson has achieved. Only 3 seasons with more TDs than Wilson. Won only one ring like Wilson (unless you consider the 2 he got watching Montana). Young's special talent was also his efficiency, and both he and Wilson are pretty much lock step in that regard. His stats in his prime are pretty identical to what Wilson has already duplicated in just his first two years. He ended up a first ballot HOFer. Wilson is going to pale statistically in the legacy stats like yards and completions in today's NFL. His efficiency stats and his advanced stats are going to be HOF worthy. How valuable will those be in 10 years? Probably significant. Even without those stats, QBs of lesser stats have made the hall even in recent years. Let's not kid ourselves. It's not like Wilson is Eli Manning. He has a pair of rings and he's not ever going to sniff the HOF. If Wilson does manage to get more rings than Luck, that'll help his cause. If he ends up the most successful of the class in that regard that will help him even more. We can also use the long ball period of baseball to maybe infer what might occur in the future. One of the problems of having routine 4k yard seasons, is that you don't really separate yourself from your peers. It's not altogether unique. And we might see that manifest in the next handful of years as we are seeing a glut of receivers with 100 catch years and top 10 all time yards becoming eligible. Edited August 22, 2014 by Attyla the Hawk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KempBolt 498 Posted August 22, 2014 Russell Wilson is an interesting guy to bring up, it's certainly too early to rule him out, as is the case with most sub-26 year olds, and the fact that he already has a ring does help his cause, but a Super Bowl win is a team accomplishment and Wilson hasn't done much as an individual, especially with the numbers QBs are putting up now, and that should be a huge strike against him, again I wouldn't rule him out in his second year, but I think a guy like Andrew Luck, who is actually putting up the numbers you expect from QBs in today's NFL and should be at least in playoff contention for a while probably stands a better chance if we're setting odds based on what we've seen so far I totally agree with the bolded, but I also think you have to recognize that HOF voters put a lot of stock in QB's having rings. At least that's my observation. On Luck vs. Wilson, I don't think there is that much of a disparity. Just this last season: Luck: 343/570, 60.2%, 3,822 yards, 6.71 YPA, 23 TD, 9 INT, 63 rushing attempts, 377 yard, 6.0 YPC, 4 TD, 6 total fumbles Wilson: 257/407, 63.1%, 3,357 yards, 8.25 YPA, 26 TD, 9 INT, 96 rushing attempts, 539 yards, 5.6 YPC, 1 TD, 10 total fumbles Luck is obviously asked to do way more and has the higher volume. Wilson is obviously asked to do less, but rewards the team in that tradeoff with higher efficiency. So while I agree that Luck is better individually, I don't think the gap is that large. And I personally think Wilson is about to start closing it. His improvement as a passer is pretty obvious to me over the past two seasons. And I don't believe the Seahawks invested their top picks in both 2013 and 2014 in receivers if they didn't intend to start putting more on Wilson's plate. He didn't have either Harvin nor Richardson (obviously) last year, but he has them now. So we'll see. Robert Quinn Earl Thomas Richard Sherman Russell Wilson Navarro Bowman (if he has no lingering injury issues) Those would by my NFCW candidates. Good list, but Sherman and Bowman don't fit the criteria as 26 year olds. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oochymp 2,393 Posted August 22, 2014 I don't think any QB from this era will get into the HOF without a 4000 yard season, Luck already has one under his belt, Wilson's top is 3357, again it's too early to rule him out, and it'd be stupid to assume that his second season will end up being his best, but you do have to extrapolate Wilson's numbers and assume they'll go up, obviously neither is definitely a HOFer based on two seasons (as nobody is) and they're both on solid trajectories, but I think anyone who views Wilson as closer at this point (not saying you've put him closer, but he is the first guy you listed) is putting too much weight on the Super Bowl Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KempBolt 498 Posted August 22, 2014 I don't think any QB from this era will get into the HOF without a 4000 yard season, Luck already has one under his belt, Wilson's top is 3357, again it's too early to rule him out, and it'd be stupid to assume that his second season will end up being his best, 1) but you do have to extrapolate Wilson's numbers and assume they'll go up, obviously neither is definitely a HOFer based on two seasons (as nobody is) and they're both on solid trajectories, 2) but I think anyone who views Wilson as closer at this point (not saying you've put him closer, but he is the first guy you listed) is putting too much weight on the Super Bowl 1) Indeed. And I am. 2) I do think he's closer at this point based on the ring. And I think that because of the impact that voters seem to place on rings at the QB position. I agree that they place too big of an importance on them, but reality is what it is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oochymp 2,393 Posted August 22, 2014 I'll put it this way and I think I've said all I can on the point, Joe Flacco has five seasons over 3600 yards with one over 3800 and was over 3900 last season and has a Super Bowl ring, but he's not likely to be anywhere near the HOF, I'm not sure I see Wilson doing much better numbers wise unless there's a major change in Seattle's system, he's already over 8 ypa and 13 ypc so there's not much space there, and without the numbers going up I don't see him getting in Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KempBolt 498 Posted August 22, 2014 I'll put it this way and I think I've said all I can on the point, Joe Flacco has five seasons over 3600 yards with one over 3800 and was over 3900 last season and has a Super Bowl ring, but he's not likely to be anywhere near the HOF, I'm not sure I see Wilson doing much better numbers wise unless there's a major change in Seattle's system, he's already over 8 ypa and 13 ypc so there's not much space there, and without the numbers going up I don't see him getting in I think it's premature to assume that Wilson is locked into this low volume role. He's just entering his 3rd season and personnel moves of late point to a bigger emphasis on the passing game. And while the numbers might seem comparable between Flacco and Wilson at the same points in their respective careers, if you can remember Flacco in his first two seasons it's pretty obvious that we're talking about a much better player. The opportunity for bigger seasons eventually came along for Flacco, and he did not prove equal to the task. I think the same opportunities presented to Wilson will have a different outcome. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Attyla the Hawk 197 Posted August 22, 2014 I don't think any QB from this era will get into the HOF without a 4000 yard season That could well be. I'm not sure how much weight having one of those will be in 15 years. Particularly if it's commonplace. Matthew Stafford is going to dull that argument almost by himself. But not having one when it is commonplace is going to fuel the debate no doubt. Efficiency and wins will matter. Here is the list of all time QBRs. While today many will look at that stat dubiously -- I'm not sure the company kept on that list will be enough to discount it's value. Nor am I sure that it won't resonate more as time progresses. Not unlike how sacks took time to factor in to the HOF discussion. 1. Aaron Rodgers (31) 104.9 2005-2013 2. Peyton Manning (38) 97.2 1998-2013 3. Steve Young+ 96.8 1985-1999 4. Philip Rivers (33) 96.0 2004-2013 5. Tony Romo (34) 95.8 2004-2013 6. Tom Brady (37) 95.7 2000-2013 7. Drew Brees (35) 95.3 2001-2013 8. Kurt Warner 93.7 1998-2009 9. Ben Roethlisberger (32) 92.6 2004-2013 10. Joe Montana+ 92.3 1979-1994 This list was from 2013. It's likely 7 of these guys will be HOFers. Rivers probably would make that 8 if he could get a ring. Big Ben could make that 9. Wilson doesn't qualify due to number of attempts (nor does Luck). But he'd currently rank 2nd all time if he did. I'm certain there will be voters who basically require the star wars numbers to even begin the conversation. And for those voters, Wilson will have to oblige in the next 10 years in order to start the debate with them. Quite obviously, wins and titles mean more for QBs than any other position, and that's borne out in how voters accept QBs with less. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NaTaS+ 958 Posted August 22, 2014 In addition to some already mentioned: Joe Haden comes to mind as does Luke Kuechly, AJ Green (maybe), Josh Gordon (hahahahaha). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RazorStar 4,025 Posted August 22, 2014 Russell Wilson is an interesting guy to bring up, it's certainly too early to rule him out, as is the case with most sub-26 year olds, and the fact that he already has a ring does help his cause, but a Super Bowl win is a team accomplishment and Wilson hasn't done much as an individual, especially with the numbers QBs are putting up now, and that should be a huge strike against him, again I wouldn't rule him out in his second year, but I think a guy like Andrew Luck, who is actually putting up the numbers you expect from QBs in today's NFL and should be at least in playoff contention for a while probably stands a better chance if we're setting odds based on what we've seen so far Considering Wilson's numbers have been superior to Luck's, I'm sure Wilson is fine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KempBolt 498 Posted August 22, 2014 I almost included A.J. Green, but then I realized that he's already 26. That qualifier made the exercise a lot more difficult. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RazorStar 4,025 Posted August 22, 2014 In any case here's my list of guys. Johnny Manziel (Cleveland seems ready to crown him, why not Canton?) hahaha Andrew Luck (Seems like he's already got the Favre / Peyton Hype train going. Nothing will derail that aside from a grue. Or a gruesome injury.) Tyron Smith. Good call here, best offensive lineman on an overhyped franchise. You're gonna go far kid. JJ Watt. Clearly. This guy is redefining the 3-4 DE and what it could be. Bruce Smith eat your heart out. Von Miller. Please? Please stop fucking up? You were the chosen one! You were supposed to bring balance to our defense, not destroy it! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NaTaS+ 958 Posted August 22, 2014 I almost included A.J. Green, but then I realized that he's already 26. That qualifier made the exercise a lot more difficult. I included him as a 26 and under. If we only want 25 year olds and younger - it does make it a bit more difficult. In any case here's my list of guys. Johnny Manziel (Cleveland seems ready to crown him, why not Canton?) hahaha No one in Cleveland is ready to crown Manziel with anything. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seanbrock 1,684 Posted August 22, 2014 I'd say 26 and under is good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FartWaffles 1,857 Posted August 22, 2014 Cam Newton? He obviously has to do more to warrant the consideration, but I feel like he took some big steps toward that last season. If he can build from that, then the sky is the limit. He's only 25 and from a talent/athleticism perspective, there may be no one better gifted to play the position. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cherry 1,302 Posted August 22, 2014 QB Stafford Newton Wilson Dalton(If he wins a fuckin playoff game, he could) Luck RB LeSean McCoy Alfred Morris Eddie Lacy Doug Martin Andre Ellington(That YPT doe) Giovani Bernard WR Dez Bryant (Under 27?) Julio Jones Alshon Jeffery Cordarelle Patterson(Devin Hester, with hands) AJ Green Antonio Brown Josh Gordon Kendall Wright Demaryius Thomas Keenan Allen Will do more tomorrow Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sarge+ 3,436 Posted August 23, 2014 QB Dalton(If he wins a fuckin playoff game, he could) RB Doug Martin Andre Ellington Giovani Bernard WR Julio Jones Alshon Jeffery Cordarelle Patterson(Devin Hester, with hands) AJ Green Antonio Brown Josh Gordon Kendall Wright Demaryius Thomas Keenan Allen Will do more tomorrow 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cherry 1,302 Posted August 23, 2014 We're talking about potential right? Dalton has in his first 3 years in the NFL racked up a TD-INT ratio of 80-49, made it to 3 consecutive playoff games, and produced at an extremely high level, despite having serious clutz moments. If Dalton continues on the path he is on, but starts doing successful in the playoffs, he has a very solid argument. He is comparable to a young Brees. He might hover at his current spot for 7-10 years and be the ultimate average QB. Or he might go above and reach that next level. Certainly attainable. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seanbrock 1,684 Posted August 23, 2014 QB Stafford Newton Wilson Dalton(If he wins a fuckin playoff game, he could) Luck RB LeSean McCoy Alfred Morris Eddie Lacy Doug Martin Andre Ellington(That YPT doe) Giovani Bernard WR Dez Bryant (Under 27?) Julio Jones Alshon Jeffery Cordarelle Patterson(Devin Hester, with hands) AJ Green Antonio Brown Josh Gordon Kendall Wright Demaryius Thomas Keenan Allen Will do more tomorrow No Foles? This list is wack as fuck. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cherry 1,302 Posted August 23, 2014 No Foles? This list is wack as fuck.Definitely considered Foles but we only saw one true season from him. If he produces anything like last year he is in the conversation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bucman 891 Posted August 23, 2014 Robert Quinn JJ Watt Are 2 candidates for sure. A lot of good players under 26 in the league, but not many are HOF worthy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
