The "OBJ rule"?

[oochymp 2,393]

well, last night Odell Beckham, Jr. and Malcolm Butler gave us another reason to talk about what constitutes a catch, here's the play in gif form (I couldn't find it on youtube):

 

another angle:

 

This was on the Giants last drive, they settled for a field goal to take a two point lead, the Patriots would get a field goal on their next drive to win, take what implications you want on the impact on the game, I'm here to discuss the rule.

 

The play was initially called a TD then reversed on booth review to incomplete based on the rule that states that a player must maintain the ball to the point where he becomes a runner, defined as being "capable of avoiding or warding off impending contact," language that replaced the dreaded "football move."

 

IMPORTANT NOTE: this is NOT the "Calvin Johnson rule," which applies to catches made while the receiver is going to the ground, it's an entirely separate element of making a catch, which is the transition from making the catch to becoming a runner, that's why I referred to it as the "OBJ Rule"

 

It clearly looks like OBJ had control of the ball with two feet in the endzone, but had not established himself as a runner, so the question I think this brings up is should there be a different rule regarding catches made in the endzone? There's certainly justification for this, the endzone is treated differently in a lot of rules (most notably fumbles) and if you're already in the endzone when you catch the ball you don't have anywhere to run to so why do you need to establish yourself as a runner? The alternative is that if this is a catch then any similar play between the goallines would be a catch and fumble, which is also an option. You could also just agree with the rule as currently written, this isn't a catch and receivers should make damn sure they secure the ball regardless of where they are on the field.

 

Thoughts?

Edited November 16, 2015 by oochymp

[ATL_Predator+ 1,196]

To me it never looked like about a milisecond before his left foot hits the ground the ball is knocked loose...therefore...no catch. It's a very tough call but the ball is moving around far too much for him to 100% most certainly have possession.

 

If he keeps that jump and faces the same way and lands on both feet without having his body turn in midair...he would've had a clear TD. IMO.

[FartWaffles 1,857]

I've seen this play happen MANY times, and it has ALWAYS been called incomplete. Only reason this is being blown up is because it occurred in the endzone. Gotta keep control of the football. Great play by Butler.

[oochymp 2,393]

one question I would ask OBJ about this play if I had the opportunity is what was he reaching for? when you watch the play he stretches his arms out right before Butler smacks the ball out, if he just pulls the ball in and secures it then Butler would have had nothing to swat, I'm pretty sure that's catching 101, once you have the ball in your hands bring it to your body

[Piggly Wiggly 960]

No clue why the officials ruled it a TD at first. That type of play always has been and always will be incomplete.

 

Reminded me of when Sterling Moore knocked the ball from Lee Evans in the endzone in the 2011 AFCCG.

[AL_Royalty 489]

Incomplete pass

[BwareDWare94 723]

I understand why that is incomplete, but will never understand plays like Megatron's, Dez's, Eifert's, or Freeman's.

 

This actually makes sense. He's landing pretty much simultaneous to the ball being knocked free. That's clearly not a catch.

[WeaponX20 26]

I understand why that is incomplete, but will never understand plays like Megatron's, Dez's, Eifert's, or Freeman's.

 

This actually makes sense. He's landing pretty much simultaneous to the ball being knocked free. That's clearly not a catch.

Dez Bryant's was never a catcg people seriously need to let it go.he took 2 steps then dove and when he clearly lost momentum as he went to the ground made the ball pop loose which resulted the catch to become incomplete

[BwareDWare94 723]

Dez Bryant's was never a catcg people seriously need to let it go.he took 2 steps then dove and when he clearly lost momentum as he went to the ground made the ball pop loose which resulted the catch to become incomplete

 

Just like Eifert and Freeman, Dez made a move toward the endzone signaling that he had clear control of the football. It's the exact same thing except the other two crossed the goal line. As for Megatron--putting the ball on the ground to help you maintain your balance should have never result in an incomplete pass.

 

This OBJ play happened in a mere fraction of a second. It's not even remotely similar to the other 4.

Edited November 19, 2015 by BwareDWare94

[oochymp 2,393]

As for Megatron--putting the ball on the ground to help you maintain your balance should have never result in an incomplete pass.

wait, putting the ball on the ground shouldn't result in an incomplete pass? also, it wasn't so much that he put the ball on the ground as the fact that he left it there

 

as I said, the OBJ play was a different rule because OBJ wasn't going to the ground, so yes, it is different from the other plays you referrenced

[WeaponX20 26]

wait, putting the ball on the ground shouldn't result in an incomplete pass? also, it wasn't so much that he put the ball on the ground as the fact that he left it there

 

as I said, the OBJ play was a different rule because OBJ wasn't going to the ground, so yes, it is different from the other plays you referrenced

Megatron was on his back with the ball in his hands that's s touchdown. He rolled over to stand up and placed the ball on the ground

[oochymp 2,393]

he wasn't on his back at any point in that play, he landed on his side rolling, stretched the ball out, the ball hit the ground and came loose, it was all one action and the rule is pretty clear on that, if you're going to the ground while making a catch you need to get back up with the ball and don't let it hit the ground

 

this really is catching 101, get your hands on the ball, then bring it to your body

[oochymp 2,393]

somehow I missed this one from about a month ago:

https://twitter.com/NFL/status/655813322533564418?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

I would love to hear someone try to explain how that one is any different from the OBJ incompletion

[Thanatos 2,847]

I can give you the NFL's argument:

 

Golden Tate caught the ball outside the endzone and crossed the plane with possession while no defender was "taking him to the ground". Since no one was taking him to the ground, he doesn't have to maintain possession all the way through. So as soon as he crosses the plane, its a touchdown.

 

I can give you my argument:

 

They fucked up royally. This was not a touchdown, he clearly doesn't catch it outside the endzone and to argue he does is utterly stupid. It's even more insane considering they ruled Devonta Freeman's TD catch against Washington was incomplete when he caught it outside the endzone, took two steps with possession of the ball, lunged forward, broke the plane, and THEN lost the ball, (he loses possession after the end of that gif when he's lying on his back). That was a TD and this was an interception; Lions got gifted a TD in a one-score game.

 

Beckham's catch was an incompletion, I think, and so was Tate's.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Thanatos19

[oochymp 2,393]

yeah, I just don't see how he had any more control over the ball prior to it being knocked loose than OBJ did, maybe it looked like he had more control over it because he brought the ball in to his body?

[Thanatos 2,847]

No it had nothing to do with that. It had to do with the NFL ruling that he was outside the goalline when he caught the ball and broke the plane with possession. Which is clearly bullshit, as anyone with eyes can see.

[oochymp 2,393]

the question is when (if?) he had possession, because if he did have possession prior to crossing the goalline that it's absolutely the right ruling because the play would end as soon as the ball crossed the plane, and that has everything to do with control

[FartWaffles 1,857]

Agree with Than. The refs messed that call up. Should've been an INT for the Bears. Like Beckham, Golden Tate never had clear possession of the ball to call that a catch.

[Thanatos 2,847]

the question is when (if?) he had possession, because if he did have possession prior to crossing the goalline that it's absolutely the right ruling because the play would end as soon as the ball crossed the plane, and that has everything to do with control

 

Both of Tate's feet hit the ground inside the endzone. He catches the ball in midair, both feet come down in the endzone. He clearly does not have possession prior to crossing the plane. By the time his second foot comes down, he is beginning to lose possession.

 

And if your statement is correct, then Freeman's catch should have been a TD.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Thanatos19